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Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

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Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#121

Post by [deleted] »

csmpltn wrote: post #110
Luc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your client is simply purchasing a service from your LLC or S-Corp, with a contract. And if that's a fiction, a judge will see straight through it. Ask a lawyer if you don't believe us. I can think of several examples in the news lately in my country of residence.

> "And if that's a fiction, a judge will see straight through it." I never claimed that "pro forma" contracts used for laundering illegitimate business relationships are somehow legal. This feels to me like an entirely separate issue, and I'm not sure how it's related to anything we've discussed so-far? You can own a company, and simultaneously be the only employee in that company. Your client enters into a contractu…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#122

Post by bitL »

brtkdotse wrote: post #113
bitL wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, you probably haven't read horror stories from TeamBlind where Google Warsaw was paying like $25k/year... My guess is that the op wants to stay in Poland but work for at least $60k instead of moving to Germany/UK where 60k is a poverty line.

> 60k is a poverty line I suspect you’re probably being facetious, but it’s borderline distasteful towards those on the actual poverty line.

In big cities with the ongoing inflation and Euro collapse I am not sure you aren't actually joking...

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#123

Post by bitL »

sarchertech wrote: post #112
csmpltn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the LLC's or S-Corp's responsibility to deal with everything you've mentioned, not your client's. Your client is simply purchasing a service from your LLC or S-Corp, with a contract. The contract must not stand in violation of your local tax and employment laws. It's a standard case of one company (a third-party) purchasing the services of another (a company you simultaneously both own, and are employed at).

This is an incorrect interpretation of the law. The IRS will look at this situation and determine either the owner of the LLC is a de facto employee or not. Whether they are billing though an LLC or not is not one of the factors. Here’s a quick read about the topic: https://www.trimprulaw.com/an-individual-who-has-an-llc-is-a... “Just because an individual which is engaged by a business has an LLC, does not mean that…

You are looking at US->US relationship, making the same error as folks elsewhere with NL->NL relationship etc. The question is US->NL relationship etc. You are applying labor laws of one country into an international relationship.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#124

Post by arnvald »

bitL wrote: post #99
arnvald wrote: post #3

To get 60k/y you don't even need to work for a US company - it'll be much easier to find something in Germany or UK because of the time zone. Heck, even Polish companies offer this kind of salaries these days (they also post salary ranges most of the time so you can check it) and they're often very remote-friendly

Heh, you probably haven't read horror stories from TeamBlind where Google Warsaw was paying like $25k/year... My guess is that the op wants to stay in Poland but work for at least $60k instead of moving to Germany/UK where 60k is a poverty line.

OP mentioned remote work, I said it's easier to work remotely from Europe for UK/DE companies than US companies, I didn't say anything about relocation.

Also not sure when you've heard that stories about Google, but right now plenty of companies in Poland pay senior devs €60k/y

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#125

Post by sarchertech »

csmpltn wrote: post #118
sarchertech wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 20 part test that covers whether you are considered an employee of the engaging company. Whether the engaging company pays you directly or pays an LLC you own is not part of that test. If the IRS or a local government decides that you are being treated as an employee of the company, they will ignore the intermediate LLC. Think about your argument for a second. If it holds true, employment laws are useless.…

> "Single owner LLCs are pass through entities and they have no obligations to pay minimum wage, overtime, unemployment insurance etc…" Perhaps an LLC (which is a pass-through entity) is the wrong structure to use here then. Perhaps a C-Corp would be more suitable? Here's one example of what I'm referring to: https://www.altinn.no/en/start-and-run-business/planning-sta... > "If your interpretation of the law stood, e…

No the reason is because it’s illegal. You can’t engage someone in an employee employer relationship and pay them as an independent contractor.

>much easier manage

This is patently false. Contractors are much much easier to manage.

It is perfectly legal to hire contractors. There is nothing wrong with this. What you can’t do is hire a contractor and treat them as an employee.

There is a legal difference. The IRS has a 20 part test.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#126

Post by sarchertech »

csmpltn wrote: post #120
sarchertech wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incorporation method isn’t the loophole. Paying someone through a corporation (regardless of its pass through status) and then treating them as an employee is the the attempted loophole. In the US and many other countries it doesn’t work.

> "Paying someone through a corporation (regardless of its pass through status) and then treating them as an employee is the attempted loophole" But isn't that exactly how consultancies work though? The client enters into a contractual agreement with the consultancy, asking for specific consultants to help the client get certain tasks done. The consultants are "treated as employees" in the sense that they often have…

There is a 20 part tes(it’s actually now a 3 part test with 4-6 sub parts each but it’s substantially still the same). The fact that the consultant has to physically come into work at a specified time and uses the clients tools is evidence for them being employees.

That their company receives income from multiple clients, and the engagement is for limited duration is evidence for them being contractors.

The IRS and local governments make the final determination.

https://www.everee.com/blog/irs-independent-contractor-test/

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#127

Post by tok1 »

bitL wrote: post #19
tok1 wrote: post #8

I don't want to sound negative but with current tax legislation in most EU countries, this is far more complicated than it may sound, at least to do it lawfully. Not impossible but in many cases, it requires a legal entity in your home country to be fully employed (i.e. not freelancer-based). I investigated a somewhat related scenario: Being employed at a German legal entity with an already-remote contract and reloca…

It's super easy actually. All one needs is to be a freelancer in the EU and use W-8BEN form in the US. No additional taxes, just EU ones.

As stated, I am only focused on employment, not freelancing. See also parallel discussion with challenges of contractor vs employee and false self-employment.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#128

Post by csmpltn »

sarchertech wrote: post #126
csmpltn wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Paying someone through a corporation (regardless of its pass through status) and then treating them as an employee is the attempted loophole" But isn't that exactly how consultancies work though? The client enters into a contractual agreement with the consultancy, asking for specific consultants to help the client get certain tasks done. The consultants are "treated as employees" in the sense that they often have…

There is a 20 part tes(it’s actually now a 3 part test with 4-6 sub parts each but it’s substantially still the same). The fact that the consultant has to physically come into work at a specified time and uses the clients tools is evidence for them being employees. That their company receives income from multiple clients, and the engagement is for limited duration is evidence for them being contractors. The IRS and l…

Thanks.

If there's a subjective test involved, where some things are left to interpretation and circumstantial evidence, my take here is that it would be wisest to work with a lawyer/accountant on setting up the correct structure for each engagement.

It's also good to remember that this is the IRS, and that other jurisdictions may have entirely different practices here.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#129

Post by frozencell »

fruit2020 wrote: post #48
frozencell wrote: post #36

Luxembourg's median household income was $67,521 in 2020 in crisis. EU also offer bicycle roads and collective healthcare, what are the arguments to go in the US? Genuine question.

Question is how to make more money in EU by working remotely and getting a US salary. Living in the US is totally different. Anyway, if you can make more, under similar conditions, why not?

> Anyway, if you can make more, under similar conditions, why not?

One could think this is unethical and individualist, OP reinforces the dollar monopoly and has to pay taxes to times right?

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#130

Post by bitL »

tok1 wrote: post #127
bitL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super easy actually. All one needs is to be a freelancer in the EU and use W-8BEN form in the US. No additional taxes, just EU ones.

As stated, I am only focused on employment, not freelancing. See also parallel discussion with challenges of contractor vs employee and false self-employment.

You are out of luck then, there is no legal framework for employment cross-border anywhere. Maybe in Dubai with their remote work visa giving you 0% taxes but that would require a relocation there.
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