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Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#121

Post by atmosx »

avgDev wrote: post #110
lexa1979 wrote: post #46

I live in Belgium, didn't inherit millions from family and am in the middle working class. I'll stay in this working class, this is how it has been conceived, I'll never make millions. Once I understood and accepted this, I managed to work only 4 days a week and live more than finely with this salary. Work is only there to get my living wage, I detached completely from work life, I chat with colleague, I do what I'm…

There are many self-made millionaires. Not sure if you are a dev or not...but you can always make an app or a game that takes off? Your life circumstances may lead you to the app and you could make it out of necessity for yourself. Honestly, I'm content with being in middle class but I also think about future opportunities and work towards bigger goals.

> There are many self-made millionaires.

It's about 8.7% in North America according and 2.7% in Europe to Credit Suisse[1]. That is not _many_, that is _very few_ in my dictionary.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#122

Post by Graffur »

sjducb wrote: post #70
Graffur wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that some meetings are necessary to make decisions. That is not what the OP is tired of. He is tired of 'corporate bs'. Productive meetings are not 'corporate bs' so your comment is not relevant.

How do you define corporate bs Vs productive meetings?

It's pretty easy to tell them apart. For example: a meeting where devs discuss and agree something and maybe make a principle going forward vs a meeting where nobody is empowered to make any decisions, there is dependency on people not in the meeting, nothing is decided, next action is to follow up with someone not in the meeting and to book in another meeting.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#123

Post by yunohn »

npacenop wrote: post #50

I don't want to sound like the bad guy here who defends corporate, but I kind of feel like OP and a lot of comments are missing the point. Which is: large business organizations are complex social structures. You can't have a complex social structure without a lot of communication going on. Of course there are zounds of different ways to communicate with each other and if you (and your colleagues) feel like certain m…

> The latter is perfectly fine for me as I am aware that these people still produce huge amounts of value to the company

This is the problem. Most managers are not aware of the real ground situation and rely on “visibility” presentations to judge worth.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#124

Post by Graffur »

npacenop wrote: post #71
Graffur wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that some meetings are necessary to make decisions. That is not what the OP is tired of. He is tired of 'corporate bs'. Productive meetings are not 'corporate bs' so your comment is not relevant.

Not quite... my argument is that a lot of meetings are necessary to keep an organization ticking - decision making is just a part of it. If for anyone that feels like corporate bs (which is a perfectly valid standpoint!!!), well... these people aren't cut for a corporate life. What's the problem in that? If I don't like children I probably wouldn't try to become a kindergarten teacher, if I absolutely can't stand com…

Can you give an example of a meeting that keeps the org ticking and doesn't have any decision making?

To your second point.. corporate bs is not necessary and should be called out. Most of it falls into waste. Another large chunk falls into people trying to climb the corporate ladder.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#125

Post by bjourne »

danieljacksonno wrote: post #68
bjourne wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP specified that it was "the worst part". Was a Slack bot that shunned people from writing "guys" the worst part of the "censorship" you were subjected to?

To be honest, a slack bot like that would make me quit on the spot.

Why? Are you that sensitive?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#126

Post by dokem »

danieljacksonno wrote: post #68
bjourne wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP specified that it was "the worst part". Was a Slack bot that shunned people from writing "guys" the worst part of the "censorship" you were subjected to?

To be honest, a slack bot like that would make me quit on the spot.

Gotta have a little more fun. First, I would leave and go get a drink while contemplating how the fuck I ended up in an org like this. Then I would spend the next two weeks browsing job boards, trolling the company chat, taking long lunches, then hit on that one cute girl and also the kinda fatter one that you think is probably dtf as a backup.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#127

Post by jlokier »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #113
brtkdotse wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst part is the high degree of censorship. Everyone is so sensitive now that it's impossible to speak openly What would you say if you weren't censored?

What I miss is humor. I work in a multinational and the cultural difference is striking. My European colleagues will make harmless jokes and laugh in most meetings. It makes a really pleasant environment. In comparison, my us colleagues don't laugh or joke at all, too risky as someone could be offended. Simple expressive language is also taboo. One Italian coworker used a analogy of the product as a beautiful woman i…

Counterpoint to the European thing:

I recently worked for an all-remote team where almost everyone is Europe based, and there was no humour at all in their meetings, and very little personal anecdata of any kind. It was very dry and professional, week in week out. I once cracked a light joke (nothing that anyone could find offensive) and it fell very flat. Doing so was obviously out of place. Never made that mistake again.

Not just missing humour, but I couldn't discern any way that people formed work-social connections outside of those meetings, even though most of our interactions were over Discord. It was all about the work, and that was minimal as well. Even on Discord it was interesting to see much of the time, people talked past each other, not appearing to understand each other's point, or just saying what they'd worked on with no replies. Even DMs tended to be dry and would end when the question at hand was answered. My attempts to be friendly and curious led nowhere, metaphorically like the flatness of talking in an anechoic chamber.

I found it quite depressing and difficult, not because I especially needed work friends, but because I couldn't find a way to get to the "informal real talk mode" about work either. It was difficult to forge the kinds of informal links that make work easier and more effective, and I think everyone's work quality suffered for it because everyone was kind of working on little atomised areas. I saw very little evidence that anyone cared about anyone else's wellbeing either.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#128

Post by s1artibartfast »

jlokier wrote: post #127
s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I miss is humor. I work in a multinational and the cultural difference is striking. My European colleagues will make harmless jokes and laugh in most meetings. It makes a really pleasant environment. In comparison, my us colleagues don't laugh or joke at all, too risky as someone could be offended. Simple expressive language is also taboo. One Italian coworker used a analogy of the product as a beautiful woman i…

Counterpoint to the European thing: I recently worked for an all-remote team where almost everyone is Europe based, and there was no humour at all in their meetings, and very little personal anecdata of any kind. It was very dry and professional, week in week out. I once cracked a light joke (nothing that anyone could find offensive) and it fell very flat. Doing so was obviously out of place. Never made that mistake…

You bring up the really good point that this type of dry conversation to obtain answers only is a terrible environment for curiosity and learning. Relating interest, abstract Concepts and gasp opinions not necessarily specific to the problem at hand is an important Avenue towards growth.

You thought the Europeans were the dry ones?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#129

Post by jlokier »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #128
jlokier wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint to the European thing: I recently worked for an all-remote team where almost everyone is Europe based, and there was no humour at all in their meetings, and very little personal anecdata of any kind. It was very dry and professional, week in week out. I once cracked a light joke (nothing that anyone could find offensive) and it fell very flat. Doing so was obviously out of place. Never made that mistake…

You bring up the really good point that this type of dry conversation to obtain answers only is a terrible environment for curiosity and learning. Relating interest, abstract Concepts and gasp opinions not necessarily specific to the problem at hand is an important Avenue towards growth. You thought the Europeans were the dry ones?

> You thought the Europeans were the dry ones?

Actually yes.

Although the teams I worked with were almost all people in Europe, one was from USA, and another was in Canada (though guessing from their name, perhaps their family came from eastern Europe). Those two were people I enjoyed listening to more, and felt if I reached out it would be feasible to have a bit more depth to the conversation. They managed to sound more interesting and emotionally present than the others, both in writing and verbally, and if I had a choice I'd choose them to work with in future.

It may not be a coincidence that they were among the most technically skilled people as well. I noticed a correlation between high technical skill and pleasant and thoughtful people, though by no means was that universal.

EDIT: After thinking over the above reply, I realised that "dry" isn't the right word for the distinction I'm using. "Humourless" and "entirely work oriented", perhaps. There were some Europeans that weren't dry, they had strongly expressed (but dubious) technical opinions and weren't afraid to say them. But that wasn't humour, and tended to imply someone else was wrong/stupid/incompetent, which imho was unhelpful for fostering prosocial work relationships.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else is tired of all the corporate bs?

#130

Post by s1artibartfast »

bjourne wrote: post #125
danieljacksonno wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, a slack bot like that would make me quit on the spot.

Why? Are you that sensitive?

Not OP, and I wouldn't quit over a single message, or single bot.

That said, it is a red flag that the company ok with spamming the employees to virtue signal. It is likely that it will be accompanied with other annoyances and has an incompatible culture.

Better to get out before you go crazy or get fired.

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