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Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

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Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#1

Post by alkimie2 »

My son (a physics student) wrote to me to point me to a crowdsource project for a CPAP machine.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/airing-the-first-hoseless-maskless-micro-cpap#/story

My immediate thought upon seeing the mock up was: balony, with a capital 'B'.

It is a tiny thing looking a little like a plastic moustache. I do not see how such a small package could store enough power to run a CPAP device. It is a simple question of moving mass. People breath about 5 liters of air per minute at a low activity level. That’s 2400 liters in an-8 hour period. Air weighs about 1.2 gm/l = 2.88 KG moved in an an 8 hour period. And that illustration did not seem to have much space for a battery. Not to mention space for the magical flapping air pumps derived from CPU coolers!

And they claim a price of $3 per device… And it’s disposable.

They also say they are using a zinc air battery, which has energy density of 470 Wh/kg or .47 Wh/gm. Let’s generously say that they have 10 gm of battery—that’s 5 watt hours. Lets even more generously say that they have 8 watt hours. That’s 1 watt continuously for a night of sleep.

They are saying they can operate a CPAP machine on 1 watt, have it be the sized of a junor tootsie bar, and sell it for $3 per device.

The question I’m asking here is what should we do as engineers? Ethically, I mean. I really hate to see people taken in by such an obvious scam.

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#2

Post by chrisBob »

It looks like the found a good gullible market with lots of money, and it will be years before anyone complains. They have an earliest delivery date of 2017 depending on how things go with the FDA.

When I see something like that my first question is if the doctors involved are real or not.

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#3

Post by Alkim »

chrisBob wrote: post #2

It looks like the found a good gullible market with lots of money, and it will be years before anyone complains. They have an earliest delivery date of 2017 depending on how things go with the FDA. When I see something like that my first question is if the doctors involved are real or not.

The doctors looked suspiciously like models. I tried google image searching them but I think the oval surrounds threw it off. I'd bet they are fake as well.

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#4

Post by BuildTheRobots »

Alkim wrote: post #3
chrisBob wrote: post #2

It looks like the found a good gullible market with lots of money, and it will be years before anyone complains. They have an earliest delivery date of 2017 depending on how things go with the FDA. When I see something like that my first question is if the doctors involved are real or not.

The doctors looked suspiciously like models. I tried google image searching them but I think the oval surrounds threw it off. I'd bet they are fake as well.

There isn't a Doctor Jeffrey Bass working at Brigham and Women's Hospital [0]. There isn't an obvious email address either, so I can't just ask them if he previously worked there or if the picture matches.

[0] http://physiciandirectory.brighamandwomens.org/?Index=10&Las...

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#5

Post by kohanz »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #4
Alkim wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors looked suspiciously like models. I tried google image searching them but I think the oval surrounds threw it off. I'd bet they are fake as well.

There isn't a Doctor Jeffrey Bass working at Brigham and Women's Hospital [0]. There isn't an obvious email address either, so I can't just ask them if he previously worked there or if the picture matches. [0] http://physiciandirectory.brighamandwomens.org/?Index=10&Las...

If you Google Jeff Bass and Brigham, enough hits come up to make you think that he had some sort of association with that hospital [0]. This picture here (far left) [1] looks like the same person.

http://health.usnews.com/doctors/jeffrey-bass-342891 [0]

http://www.personalmds.com/doctors/bios [1]

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#6

Post by BuildTheRobots »

kohanz wrote: post #5
BuildTheRobots wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a Doctor Jeffrey Bass working at Brigham and Women's Hospital [0]. There isn't an obvious email address either, so I can't just ask them if he previously worked there or if the picture matches. [0] http://physiciandirectory.brighamandwomens.org/?Index=10&Las...

If you Google Jeff Bass and Brigham, enough hits come up to make you think that he had some sort of association with that hospital [0]. This picture here (far left) [1] looks like the same person. http://health.usnews.com/doctors/jeffrey-bass-342891 [0] http://www.personalmds.com/doctors/bios [1]

Interesting. Your google-foo is obviously better than mine. I googled the name but the only photo I got was the one from the CPAP page :)

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#7

Post by notahacker »

chrisBob wrote: post #2

It looks like the found a good gullible market with lots of money, and it will be years before anyone complains. They have an earliest delivery date of 2017 depending on how things go with the FDA. When I see something like that my first question is if the doctors involved are real or not.

Assuming regulators don't step in and call it a fraud, presumably it's the sort of product which can do just fine as the placebo effect will work its magic for at least some portion of users.

Re: Implausible and overfunded CPAP machine on Indiegogo

#10

Post by smitec »

When you look at the math (as you have) it seems almost certain to be a scam. ResMed has a Technical note [0] on powering one of their devices form a battery, while product efficiencies can vary they are recommending ~30 Amp hour batteries for the 20 cmH20 this device is claiming to provide. It amazes me that indigogo doesn't do something to stop this sort of thing when it gets to be such a well funded project (I'm sure other platforms are guilty of it too).

[0] http://www.rpc.com.au/pdf/battery-powering-products-usa.pdf

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