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I suck at math, please divulge resources

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I suck at math, please divulge resources

#1
This post is inspired by the "Wikipedia list of algorithms" submission at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=457579 . Props to soundsop.

On several different occasions I've brought up the Wikipedia page on discrete cosine transforms and hoped to understand it. This selection was made because DCTs are apparently fundamental algorithms for lossy data compression like that found in JPEGs or MP3s or whatever. I want to be able to write decoders for these things -- I've poked around in mplayer's source and want to change stuff, want to create a JPEG decoder as proof-of-concept to myself, etc.

But, here's the hitch: I have no mentionable background in mathematics. I got up to geometry in high school (i.e., I know cosines in triangles but have no idea what a cosine wave is, how it works, and/or how they're related if at all). Where can I learn all of the things I need to learn for these things to make sense to me, and to become blessed with the skills and understanding necessary to create and/or decode such algorithms? I need something somewhat simple and plain, something I don't have to chain through five hundred articles to understand -- that's the problem with WP; I don't understand one thing, so middle-click it, do that about ten times per math article, including on the articles I opened to understand the first article, and there's a never-ending lot of WP articles for me to read, and that's not really tenable. I need something focused on teaching, not necessarily technical precision and exhaustiveness.

I know what a logarithm is, I looked it up. I've also tried #math on Freenode but those dudes just don't know how to talk to someone without any mathematical training. Ask for a simple explanation there, it's usually kind of funny.

Please help me. Thanks. : )

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#2
I've run into the same problem that you have, in the context of Wikipedia articles on physics.

Fundamentally, Wikipedia is very good at helping you move from step n to step n+1, but it's a pretty poor textbook (which is to say, it's not great at moving you from step 3 to step 303).

I'd say that you want to reframe your question as "what textbook should I get?"

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#3
You can't learn all of everything, and you certainly can't do it quickly. What you can do is learn something that you're motivated to learn, but you can't do it by simply reading. You need to work on it.

Math requires work. Euclid said, "In geometry there is no royal road."

The DCT is a complicated thing to "understand", and I'm not sure I do myself. I would guess that the people who wrote the code you're seeking to modify didn't necessarily understand it either - they may simply have coded the formulae they were given.

So don't despair. You can learn things like this, but you can't do it all at once, and you can't do it quickly. You need to start somewhere.

What do you really want to know?

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#4
http://planetmath.org and http://mathworld.com are other encyclopedia-like sources that are useful for things Wikipedia doesn't explain well.

Other people will be better than I am at suggesting good books, so I won't try to do that. If you have a software development background, consider getting involved in an open-source project that deals with the kind of math you want to learn.

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#5
post #2

I've run into the same problem that you have, in the context of Wikipedia articles on physics. Fundamentally, Wikipedia is very good at helping you move from step n to step n+1, but it's a pretty poor textbook (which is to say, it's not great at moving you from step 3 to step 303). I'd say that you want to reframe your question as "what textbook should I get?"

The answer to that is "What is Mathematics?" by Courant and Robbins.

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#6
If you're really interested in learning a lot about mathematics, I would definitely recomment the Princeton Companion to Mathematics (see below for URL). It came out very recently, and while i'm only about 100 pages in (of well over 1000), it's down to earth writing and low prerequisites are very appealing to me.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691118809?ie=UTF8&tag=...

or if you'd rather not use my affiliate link:

http://www.amazon.com/Princeton-Companion-Mathematics-Timoth...

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#7
You are trying to run a marathon without training.

Here's what I would do:

1) Look at a signals and system course online.

2) Look at the course's prerequisites.

3) Do you understand concepts in the pre-req? If not, goto 2)

4) Once you get to a course you understand reasonably, move on to the next course you don't understand. Do this (unwind the stack) until you reach the signals and systems course.

A reasonable chunk of an electrical engineer's education is required to get to the point you wish to reach, so there is a lot of effort involved.

edit: that said, this link might also be helpful: http://www.redcedar.com/learndsp.htm

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#8
There are so many great books written that I would suggest buying a book and enjoying.

Among my favorite authors are:

Keith Devlin (check out his latest: The Unfinished Game about the invention of probability.)

William Dunham (check out: Journey through Genius: a survey of historically important math proofs that does not require too much background)

The book that got me to return to mathematics after college was the Mathematical Experience by Reuben Hersh and Phillip J. Davis.

There's also been some fantastic NOVA documentaries (my own favorites are "The Proof" about Andrew Wiles and the "Trillion Dollar Bet" about the mathematics of finance.)

I find Wikipedia is fantastic for reference material but not so great for study material. Better for self-study is MIT online. (Here's a link to a series of excellent video lectures on linear algebra: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Mathematics/18-06Spring-2005/Video...)

I have my own blog about mathematics (http://fermatslasttheorem.blogspot.com) which attempts to provide complete and clear proofs for famous results in mathematics. Some months, I get as many as 20K unique visitors so you might find it helpful.

There are also fantastic links on Hacker News on mathematics. I've found some great ones about Bayes' Theorem, for example. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bayes+Theorem+site%...)

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#9
> I got up to geometry in high school (i.e., I know cosines in triangles but have no idea what a cosine wave is, how it works, and/or how they're related if at all).

Hmm... I guess these could work...

http://www.coolmath.com/algebra/index.html

http://www.purplemath.com

If you want video tutorials, this might work:

http://www.youtube.com/user/khanacademy

For a calculus resource based on analogies and stories, try this:

http://www.karlscalculus.org/

Trying to create an implementation of a lossy compression is a bit over-the-top, especially when you are trying to learn it through Wikipedia. Try a Google search and filter through those results. Maybe there will be a less technical, but still informative explanation. Also try Youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckLJpjH5p8

(Haven't watched it all the way through)

Going from basic Trigonometry all the way to Discrete Fourier Transforms isn't exactly a 'overnight-hack' type of thing. Grokking everything will take a lot of time, if you do attempt it. Please don't hurt yourself.

Re: I suck at math, please divulge resources

#10
post #5
post #2

I've run into the same problem that you have, in the context of Wikipedia articles on physics. Fundamentally, Wikipedia is very good at helping you move from step n to step n+1, but it's a pretty poor textbook (which is to say, it's not great at moving you from step 3 to step 303). I'd say that you want to reframe your question as "what textbook should I get?"

The answer to that is "What is Mathematics?" by Courant and Robbins.

I believe that book requires more background than the OP suggests he has.
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