Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#1

Post by throwarayes » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 4:02 PM UTC

Just a note of warning from personal experience.

Companies don’t really need non-competes anymore. Some companies take an extremely broad interpretation of IP confidentiality, where they consider doing any work in the industry during your lifetime an inevitable confidentiality violation. They argue it would be impossible for you to work elsewhere in this industry during your entire career without violating confidentiality with the technical and business instincts you bring to that domain. It doesn’t require conscious violation on your part (they argue).

So beware and read your employment agreement carefully.

More here https://www.promarket.org/2024/02/08/confidentiality-agreeme...

And this is the insane legal doctrine behind this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inevitable_disclosure

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#2

Post by transactional » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 4:17 PM UTC

...but are they enforceable?

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#3

Post by throwarayes » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 4:21 PM UTC

transactional wrote: post #2

...but are they enforceable?

So far it seems maybe?, but according to the article some courts and agencies are pushing back. Well the FTC was at least in 2023.

California bans anything that is effectively a non compete.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#4

Post by codingdave » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 4:49 PM UTC

throwarayes wrote: post #3

transactional wrote: post #2

...but are they enforceable?

So far it seems maybe?, but according to the article some courts and agencies are pushing back. Well the FTC was at least in 2023. California bans anything that is effectively a non compete.

I didn't see any references in the article you linked to any cases where it had been enforced. I see a lot of commentary that validates the concern, and a listing of half a dozen states where they are being struck down.

So the callout to be wary of them is totally legit... but it doesn't look like they are going to be enforceable when such things go through the courts.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#5

Post by throwarayes » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 4:51 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #4

throwarayes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far it seems maybe?, but according to the article some courts and agencies are pushing back. Well the FTC was at least in 2023. California bans anything that is effectively a non compete.

I didn't see any references in the article you linked to any cases where it had been enforced. I see a lot of commentary that validates the concern, and a listing of half a dozen states where they are being struck down. So the callout to be wary of them is totally legit... but it doesn't look like they are going to be enforceable when such things go through the courts.

Yeah the warning is: you may, like me, find a litigious paranoid former employer who freaks out at everything :-/

I’d rather not carry the cost of learning it’s not enforceable.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#6

Post by epolanski » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 5:34 PM UTC

throwarayes wrote: post #3

transactional wrote: post #2

...but are they enforceable?

So far it seems maybe?, but according to the article some courts and agencies are pushing back. Well the FTC was at least in 2023. California bans anything that is effectively a non compete.

Well since OP's giving that warning he might've been impacted and could tell us more.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#7

Post by kirubakaran » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 6:14 PM UTC

It's funny how states like Washington are notorious for enforceable non-competes, to be "business friendly".

Meanwhile California bans non-competes, and its GDP is 4th largest in the world if it were a country!

"incumbent friendly" vs "startup friendly"

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#8

Post by ryandrake » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 6:15 PM UTC

throwarayes wrote: post #3

transactional wrote: post #2

...but are they enforceable?

So far it seems maybe?, but according to the article some courts and agencies are pushing back. Well the FTC was at least in 2023. California bans anything that is effectively a non compete.

Technically, maybe, but effectively, nobody is going to be able to withstand BigCorp's 100 lawyers whose mission is to bury you in legal fees if you push back. By the time that you confirm these things are unenforceable, you've spent your life savings on $millions in legal fees, and possibly gone into crippling debt. In the legal system, might (wealth + lawyer quantity) makes right.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#9

Post by OutOfHere » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 6:15 PM UTC

What exactly should one be on the lookout for? Practically every company has an IP confidentiality agreement.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#10

Post by Traubenfuchs » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 6:23 PM UTC

OutOfHere wrote: post #9

What exactly should one be on the lookout for? Practically every company has an IP confidentiality agreement.

Yeah, good luck being the odd one out who wants special individualized contract. This might work for unicorn value level employees that are poached from one FANG to another but not for the average Joe.