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Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

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Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#1

Post by breadwinner »

Microsoft Edge version 116.0.1938.62 has added rounded corners to all web pages, and there is no way to opt out.

Edge has been interfering with the web application experience from the start, with unwanted hover icons and menus that cannot be disabled by the application. (For example, if you hover over an image, you get Visual Search and Settings icons.) Super annoying.

But this latest change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go to CNN or Github. If the web page has dark-mode you get a distracting white border around the page, for example on chat.openai.com.

Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. Edge should stay out of the content area, or at least should allow applications to turn off unwanted buttons and menus, thus retaining full control of the application experience.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#2

Post by db48x »

That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc.

Web application developers should not complain when a web browser changes the look or feel of their application, even if the browser makes super weird choices like putting rounded corners on the viewport. If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. The web designer doesn’t get a vote.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#4

Post by lolinder »

A screenshot and explanation of how to turn this off can be found here [0].

> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone.

It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings.

Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. When a web application is designed this way, it is natively the most accessible kind of app that can exist, usable with a screen reader, terminal GUI, mobile, desktop, or even a scriptable web driver. In contrast, web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible.

In my mind, the more heterogeneous web browsers are, the more web applications are forced to handle for different configurations, and the better the ecosystem will be overall. For once I think Microsoft is doing something web-related that I actually approve of.

[0] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disa...

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#5

Post by davorak »

> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone.

I think the end user should have 100% control or access to it. I do not think this would be an issue if this was a niche browser that the user needs to seek out. Or if browser usage was spread across tens of browsers instead of 2-3 or some other form of highly competitive market with users willing to switch at a moments notice.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#6

Post by breadwinner »

db48x wrote: post #2

That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Web application developers should no…

That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#7

Post by lolinder »

breadwinner wrote: post #6
db48x wrote: post #2

That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Web application developers should no…

That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.

It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros.

The web is the most accessible platform that exists if it's used right, where "used right" means embracing the fact that the user's browser (with all of its customizations) has ultimate control over the user's experience with your application. If you want ultimate control you want a native app.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#8

Post by breadwinner »

lolinder wrote: post #7
breadwinner wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.

It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros. The web is the most accessible platform th…

> It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law.

What does that have to do with rounded corners?

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#9

Post by lolinder »

breadwinner wrote: post #8
lolinder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros. The web is the most accessible platform th…

> It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. What does that have to do with rounded corners?

I'm referring to OP's list of things they change:

> I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc.

Some of these are privacy considerations, but most of them are also accessibility-related for some people. Ensuring fonts are in readable ranges for a given person, preventing autoplay, changing form controls to stand out more—all of these are things that people do to accommodate for disabilities.

This one thing that bugs you (rounded corners) is an aesthetic change, but the fact remains that you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. If this serves as a wakeup call to designers that they can't count on pixel-perfect designs, good.

Re: Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

#10

Post by breadwinner »

lolinder wrote: post #9
breadwinner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. What does that have to do with rounded corners?

I'm referring to OP's list of things they change: > I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Some of these are privacy consi…

You are conflating design/aesthetic choices with accessibility. The browser designer is enforcing their aesthetic choices (which happens to be ugly and inconsistent) on their users. That's OK if it only impacts the browser chrome. If it impacts the content area, then the browser designer should defer to the application designer.

> you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs.

As a user, I don't want browser messing with the application design. There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".

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