Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#1

Post by vapemaster » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

Long time windows + occasional linux user. Switched to Mac for the M2 Mac Book Air. It's a phenomenal piece of silicon + hardware.

Fairly shallow learning curve on the switch since so much is cross platform electron apps these days.

BUT ... Good god the command vs ctrl behavior is driving me nuts! (even with tweaking using Karabiner etc.)

First, the ergonomics of ctrl (left pinky stretch) + any letter vs command (left thumb inversion) are night and day. ctrl for the win.

Second - windows is so much more consistent for what the ctrl key does vs the super (windows) does. ctrl is almost always the modifier, Windows key is always OS level. Mac, it's all over the place.

Am I just still on the learning curve and cranky, or does this seem like a worse user experience to any other dual wielders?

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#2

Post by coreyw56 » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

I definitely agree about the ergonomics. When I first switched over to mac, it was so hard to adjust to the position of command key, especially for copy and pasting. For windows, I was able to copy and paste without moving my entire left hand down. Meanwhile for the command key, I have to move my hand downwards to reach the key. Although it's not that big of a movement, it definitely took me some time to adjust.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#3

Post by vapemaster » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

coreyw56 wrote: post #2

I definitely agree about the ergonomics. When I first switched over to mac, it was so hard to adjust to the position of command key, especially for copy and pasting. For windows, I was able to copy and paste without moving my entire left hand down. Meanwhile for the command key, I have to move my hand downwards to reach the key. Although it's not that big of a movement, it definitely took me some time to adjust.

agreed, I'm almost to muscle memory with it so it's not the "i have to think about it" annoyance, it's that my whole hand has to move to make it work... noticeably slower than my windows workflows..

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#4

Post by greazy » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

I find the opposite. Use your thumb for the command key not your pinky finger.

My frustration is the function (fn) key placement. Just terrible.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#5

Post by dekhn » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 10:01 PM UTC

greazy wrote: post #4

I find the opposite. Use your thumb for the command key not your pinky finger. My frustration is the function (fn) key placement. Just terrible.

but with the thumb on command, you have to contort your fingers to hit any of the alphabet keys.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#6

Post by burn_cycle » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

I've been mac-only for over a decade, and the first thing I do is swap CMD and CTRL. I could never get used to the default layout.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#7

Post by jrjsmrtn » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #5

greazy wrote: post #4

I find the opposite. Use your thumb for the command key not your pinky finger. My frustration is the function (fn) key placement. Just terrible.

but with the thumb on command, you have to contort your fingers to hit any of the alphabet keys.

Try Cmd-w (close), Cmd-X (Cut), Cmd-C (Copy), Cmd-V (Paste), Cmd-Z (Undo), Cmd-A (Select All), Cmd-Q (Quit) with your left thumb on Command and the left index on the other key. Try Cmd-P (Print), Cmd-, (Preferences) with your left thumb and a right finger. I'm using macOS and Windows since the 80s, Gnome and KDE later; I still think that Windows and Linux are generations away from macOS consistency and ergonomic...

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#8

Post by jrjsmrtn » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

jrjsmrtn wrote: post #7

dekhn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but with the thumb on command, you have to contort your fingers to hit any of the alphabet keys.

Try Cmd-w (close), Cmd-X (Cut), Cmd-C (Copy), Cmd-V (Paste), Cmd-Z (Undo), Cmd-A (Select All), Cmd-Q (Quit) with your left thumb on Command and the left index on the other key. Try Cmd-P (Print), Cmd-, (Preferences) with your left thumb and a right finger. I'm using macOS and Windows since the 80s, Gnome and KDE later; I still think that Windows and Linux are generations away from macOS consistency and ergonomic...

Moreover: on macOS Cmd[-Option][-Shift][-Ctrl]- is always about a menu item/command shortcut; [Option][-Shift][-Ctrl]- is always about a glyph.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#9

Post by jrjsmrtn » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #5

greazy wrote: post #4

I find the opposite. Use your thumb for the command key not your pinky finger. My frustration is the function (fn) key placement. Just terrible.

but with the thumb on command, you have to contort your fingers to hit any of the alphabet keys.

On a Mac keyboard, you have two Command and Option keys. That means you can combine your (left|right) thumb on the Command key and a (left|right) finger on another . Moreover, you can naturally use Ctrl- as a Control-Character in a Terminal. Which is sometimes a pain on Windows.

Re: Mac's command key is worse than Window's ctrl

#10

Post by crimsontech » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 11:11 PM UTC

I have to use Mac, Linux and Windows for work.

You need to either get used to using the opposite cmd key to the letters you are pressing or remap cmd to caps lock so you don't need to contort your thumb underneath your fingers. I learned this the painful way.

In the end I settled on using a Japanese HHKB keyboard with US layout keys for the symbols and a bit of on-device key remapping to find my ergonomic end-game that I can use on all platforms.

Do explore the key remapping in MacOS though, you can have it set up so you can copy, cut, paste etc with the ctrl key instead of the cmd key.