How can I learn to work with clients well?

#1

Post by tsvallender » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

I am currently job hunting to begin a second career as a software developer (I currently work in the care industry but studied computer science at university years ago and have coded on the side since). I am confident in my technical ability but not at all with my ability to deal directly with clients, and some of the jobs I am applying for involve this.

What resources are out there to improve my knowledge of working with clients well and effectively? Books, podcasts, videos, anything would be great!

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#2

Post by wombatmobile » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

Start by offering to develop something pro bono for your local public library, or high school, or aged care home, or your accountant, doctor, or hardware store.

It should be something simple like a spreadsheet or a web page or an app that only does one thing.

The most important thing you will experience is the last 10% of the project taking up 90% of the time.

The least repeatable thing you will learn is why.

After you have done this enough times to start seeing patterns that help you to avoid bad outcomes for both you and the client, you will be ready to start working as a professional developer.

After you have experienced successes and disasters as a professional developer, you will be an experienced professional developer.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#3

Post by timdaub » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

I'd recommend learning by doing. Working with clients is not different than working with e.g. your boss except that both of you are equal on deontic and epistemic authority.

You'll get better at working with clients through experience - essentially you'll build wisdom.

For sure, you'll fuck up a lot of relationships before things start to go well. That's normal.

You'll also have to think of an economic position and where you want to stand in the relationship to your clients. Are you thirsty for work? Can you communicate rationally under high pressure? Are you being exploited? How much heart do you put into your client's work?

I've written an article about the relationship I once had with my clients. But since then it probably became outdated once again. It changes constantly, but maybe it's interesting for you: https://timdaub.github.io/2021/01/16/web-principles/

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#4

Post by davzie » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

Here’s a great book that has lots of valuable insights: https://leanpub.com/freelancedeveloperbook

It’s geared to freelancers but honestly it talks about a lot of soft skills that are probably equally as important as technical skills when it comes to self employment or when talking with clients.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#5

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 10:59 AM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #2

Start by offering to develop something pro bono for your local public library, or high school, or aged care home, or your accountant, doctor, or hardware store. It should be something simple like a spreadsheet or a web page or an app that only does one thing. The most important thing you will experience is the last 10% of the project taking up 90% of the time. The least repeatable thing you will learn is why. After y…

> The most important thing you will experience is the last 10% of the project taking up 90% of the time.

This.

Ever notice when there’s a new building going up, and the building looks complete, after just a few months, but it doesn’t open its doors for another year?

That’s because all the “finish work,” like carpeting, drywall, painting/wallpaper, doors, etc., takes forever.

It also generally requires the most expensive employees.

That’s one reason a Mercedes costs three times as much as a Toyota. They seem to be fairly equivalent, but the Merc has a whole lot more “finish,” and that costs a lot.

Most folks find they can live without that extra polish, when they learn the cost. Toyotas are excellent vehicles, and have a reasonable cost.

So, a big part of commercial feasibility, is learning where the “sweet spot” lies, so the last 10% takes only 40% of the time, and the customer is happy.

For myself, I like to do “the full Monty,” and go for 90%, but it has been my experience that no one wants to pay for it.

So I do it for free.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#6

Post by riekus » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

I can recommend the book 'how to win friends and influence people' generally. For my current consulting job I am also trying to up my game. Looking into getting ireb certification, which focusses around efficiently getting/building requirements.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#7

Post by DantesKite » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

davzie wrote: post #4

Here’s a great book that has lots of valuable insights: https://leanpub.com/freelancedeveloperbook It’s geared to freelancers but honestly it talks about a lot of soft skills that are probably equally as important as technical skills when it comes to self employment or when talking with clients.

On a side note, this is a fantastic website. I'm surprised I never heard of it. Thanks for the link.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#8

Post by vladstudio » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

davzie wrote: post #4

Here’s a great book that has lots of valuable insights: https://leanpub.com/freelancedeveloperbook It’s geared to freelancers but honestly it talks about a lot of soft skills that are probably equally as important as technical skills when it comes to self employment or when talking with clients.

Hey! It says "This book is no longer available for sale.". Do you know of any other ways to get the book?

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#9

Post by libertine » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

I've learned the most working with account managers/account directors at an agency, especially more experienced ones.

Out the top of my head, things you should keep in mind:

- It's a relationship like any other, and you earn each other trust through your interactions over time. So you need to be extremely reliable and responsive if you want to be perceived as trust worthy;

- If something bad happened, be transparent and the sooner you say it the better. It's extremely uncomfortable, and you'll try to delay it because you don't want to say shit happened, even if it wasn't your fault.

- Never bring up a problem without a solution, or a potential solution, or a recommendation for a solution. No one wants problems, we all have plenty of those. Even if it's something out of your control, you should always spin a solution for it.

- Always reply, never leave someone hanging;

But you'll only get these things rooted by exposing yourself and doing it. You'll just be missing someone to course correct you, and nudge you in the right direction.

Re: How can I learn to work with clients well?

#10

Post by JamesAdir » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

I've been a freelancer many years (not in developer roles) but it's all the same - alignment of expectations. Some clients know how to do it clearly and upfront and some will drag you through a continuous "improvement cycle". Therefore the first and most important interaction is to a very deep talk about the expectations in terms of - timing, tools, deadlines and more. The more experience you'll gain the more questions you'll have to ask your clients about your domain.

(apologies for my English) and best of luck!