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Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

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Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#1
Hi HN!

We're James and Angel, the founders of CSPA (https://cspa.io).

The Computer Science Proficiency Assessment (CSPA) is a standardized assessment for software engineers. We find software engineers to take our exam, and then share the assessment results with employers, who can then hire these candidates for free.

James was the founder of Crunchyroll and oversaw product and engineering. Angel also worked at Crunchyroll. We decided to start CSPA because:

1. There are many self-taught programmers out there who are really really good, but don't get a fair chance because they don’t have a degree. We want to give these people an equal opportunity to pursue their career. That's why there are no eligibility requirements to take the CSPA. You can come from any background, and if you get a high CSPA score, you’ll stand out.

2. As hiring managers at Crunchyroll, it was challenging to find great software developers. We wanted a service that quantitatively compares job applicants in an unbiased way, and ALSO did that assessment for us. In short, we wanted candidates to come to us pre-assessed. It would have saved us and the applicant a TON of time.

3. As software engineers, we hated applying for jobs. We did the same phone screens, the same coding challenges, and same whiteboard exercises over and over again, company after company. It's a huge waste of time. There has to be a better way. Why couldn't we just do it once, and then reuse the results at every company we apply to? Keep it DRY, right?

If you want to take the CSPA, you can register here: https://cspa.io/winter-2018/register. The first 100 people to sign up can use code "LAUNCHHN" to waive the exam fee.

If you're an employer looking to hire a pre-assessed candidate, sign up here: https://cspa.io/add-employer. We don't charge a recruiting fee.

If you're interested in joining the Technical Steering Committee, apply here: https://cspa.io/tsc/apply

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#2
Hi James and Angel congrats on the launch! Great issue to try to solve, hope you succeed.

Thanks for the LAUNCHHN voucher code. I'd seen cspa.io on hackernews previously but the free voucher code was the motivation I needed to register for the core exam in April! I'm a uk-based maths grad previously in a datasci role, currently taking some time off to self-study computer sci and frontend/backend. Looking forward to checking my progress against the test!

Quick bits of feedback in case they're helpful:

(1) I'd love there to be a second practise/past paper available (there's only one currently right?). Ideally I'd like to go through one now to check where my knowledge gaps are... then take one a couple of weeks before the exam in April.

(2) I just gave this only a very quick read... and found it a bit unclear: https://cspa.io/scoring. I'm sure I could understand it no problem with a more serious read-through... but thought I'd feed that back anyway. [Specifically it's not clear in the examples section how the score of 440 in FE is achieved, as the max mentioned is 400. Also the 6 subject scores all differ... but then presumably are scaled to 400 points. Is that right? With my quick read through I'm not yet clear if in the exam I should try to complete all 6 or just complete 1 of the 6 subject areas. I guess as final score takes your best score out of the 6 you could just complete one or two. What do most candidates do in practice? Perhaps you could add some guidance on this to the site somewhere if it's not there already.]

Regards. Mike.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#3
It's good but... I don't want this to turn out to be anything like the SAT in that it's a requirement for schools and they won't have it any other way. I've found when it comes to schooling, people are ready to market aggressively because the students don't have a choice (we saw this with TI calculators)... So what's your promise to prevent this from happening? Software Engineering is good right now because anyone, absolutely anyone, can dive in. This is a step in the wrong direction in that regard.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#4

It's good but... I don't want this to turn out to be anything like the SAT in that it's a requirement for schools and they won't have it any other way. I've found when it comes to schooling, people are ready to market aggressively because the students don't have a choice (we saw this with TI calculators)... So what's your promise to prevent this from happening? Software Engineering is good right now because anyone, a…

Yeah that's exactly how it's going to work. Standardized testing is very rarely effective when employed in this fashion as a proxy for "talent" or "drive" or "good employee". It usually ends up being a proxy for something else.

This also pushed the onus on candidate selection even further on to the candidate, when it's clearly a lack of trust from employers that you are capable of what you put on your CV. Testing that should be the burden of the employer, not the employee.

One key difference between software engineering and other engineering disciplines is that there are many more ways to solve most problems, many more problems to solve, and an endless number of customizations. At a concrete level what does the canonical "web app" look like? We can say "3 tier architecture" but that's abstract -- which technologies should you pick? When should you pick ruby over python? What about when you should pick a document store of a relational database (OK that ones kinda easy) -- these are the questions that good engineers can answer and refute -- there's usually not an absolutely right answer, either.

I personally also feel the same way about the CKA (Certified Kubernetes Administrator) -- hire someone with a CKA and sure that means they know the Kubernetes basics/internals (as it stood whenever they took the test), but does that mean they keep up? Experiment with new tech/RFCs/features (so your company doesn't have to with the product on the line)? Can they choose not to use Kubernetes when it's not necessary?

Rather than just building good, multi-layered interview questions with subtly random parts and lots of room for interpretation (to see how they interpret and think about the problem), we just pick these solutions that are somewhat broken from yesteryear (see: it/sysadmin/networking certs).

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#5

It's good but... I don't want this to turn out to be anything like the SAT in that it's a requirement for schools and they won't have it any other way. I've found when it comes to schooling, people are ready to market aggressively because the students don't have a choice (we saw this with TI calculators)... So what's your promise to prevent this from happening? Software Engineering is good right now because anyone, a…

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#6
I have a strange fetish for multi hour standardized testing, so this looks great to me. Thanks for posting and for the code!

One question based on your responses in this thread: is this test intended to measure software engineering ability or computer science knowledge?

EDIT - one more question after looking through the grading: do you see people studying for specific roles, or the entire test? While I think the latter is possible, it seems much less feasible than studying for, say, the entire SAT.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#7
There are two requirements that I personally don’t feel very comfortable with: the first one is uploading a picture of my ID (How is it stored / backed up. Who has access: third party validator or your team?) and the other is adding logmein to let a proctor control my machine prior to the exam. I saw that one may take the exam in person. I don’t know if it’s allowed by your rules, but I suppose I can set up a VM for this, but either way that just makes it more difficult for me to justify finding the time to do it.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#9
Why does it take 3 to 10 days to process results? What's stopping you from delivering results within a second?

Edit: I didn't see that there was open ended responses or a programming project on some of the exams because I was looking at the sample exam, which only has multiple choice.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#10
I want to make another comment about how these questions are much more trivial, when compared to the mathematics SAT which has a lot of problem solving. I suggest have users solve more problems using computers, and less problems about computers.

I'm only making these comments because I don't want this to fail.

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