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Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

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Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#1
Often when I read job contracts, when I find something offending, and when I say that to recruiters I usually get argument (often in high peach almost screaming voice) :"You are not a lawyers, you do not know how to read a law clause".

Taking in consideration that job contracts are very similar to BDD specs in Cucumber, why we cannot read them as part any coding specification or developer code.

What do you think in your opinion can developers read law and understand it? If recruiters are right why reading contracts at all? Should we just accept blindly or we always need to have lawyer to decipher real meaning?

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#2
Everybody should be able to read legal contracts especially if it's for personal matters like employment and renting. It's going to get fairly expensive if you need a lawyer to review every contract you sign. If you don't understand the contract you shouldn't sign it.

Personally I think contracts should just be a series of bullet points in clear language so each party knows where they stand but it's a convention that contracts should be in legalese or it's not a proper contract. Lawyers use legalese to increase or decrease ambiguity or to hide unfair contractual terms. It's also gives the impression that only lawyers can draw up contracts, though most of them at this level are just copied and pasted from somewhere else.

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#3

Everybody should be able to read legal contracts especially if it's for personal matters like employment and renting. It's going to get fairly expensive if you need a lawyer to review every contract you sign. If you don't understand the contract you shouldn't sign it. Personally I think contracts should just be a series of bullet points in clear language so each party knows where they stand but it's a convention that…

I have some issues with "Intellectual Property Right" in my job contract, as I have my llc company, but I am seeking permanent job, in the contract says that, what ever I learn there tools, knowledge etc, I cannot use anywhere else. And if I register domain or what ever I have to handover everything... so now not sure what to do...

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#4
My experience is company lawyer telling me "oh, don't worry about that" but when I hired a lawyer their explanation matched my understanding. When someone tells you not to read the contract ignore them.

You won't get the nuances (and they matter a huge amount!), and you won't be able to write a good contract, but you can usually notice grossly bad clauses.

So: on the one hand, no, you don't understand it enough for many purposes. But then neither can the recruiter. On the other hand, you can notice really bad things.

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#5
post #3

Everybody should be able to read legal contracts especially if it's for personal matters like employment and renting. It's going to get fairly expensive if you need a lawyer to review every contract you sign. If you don't understand the contract you shouldn't sign it. Personally I think contracts should just be a series of bullet points in clear language so each party knows where they stand but it's a convention that…

I have some issues with "Intellectual Property Right" in my job contract, as I have my llc company, but I am seeking permanent job, in the contract says that, what ever I learn there tools, knowledge etc, I cannot use anywhere else. And if I register domain or what ever I have to handover everything... so now not sure what to do...

1. DO NOT SIGN IT. You will be signing away your rights.

2. Either walk away, or hire a lawyer to help you make changes. I've worked with Rex Baker (http://www.rexbaker.com/ ) and he is a good guy.

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#6
post #3

Everybody should be able to read legal contracts especially if it's for personal matters like employment and renting. It's going to get fairly expensive if you need a lawyer to review every contract you sign. If you don't understand the contract you shouldn't sign it. Personally I think contracts should just be a series of bullet points in clear language so each party knows where they stand but it's a convention that…

I have some issues with "Intellectual Property Right" in my job contract, as I have my llc company, but I am seeking permanent job, in the contract says that, what ever I learn there tools, knowledge etc, I cannot use anywhere else. And if I register domain or what ever I have to handover everything... so now not sure what to do...

To expand: depending where you live that may be unenforceable... but that can still lead to a miserable time getting it pushed back in court. And in some places it will be enforceable.

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#7
I would say there's a difference between being able to read a contract and negotiate one.

For example, one common clause that 'offends' a developer might be something starting any work done whilst under their employment remains the IP of the employer.

It's one thing to tell the recruiter something offends you, but another to negotiate an alternative.

For that's what negotiation is. Understanding why the employer requested what they did, and suggesting something that achieves that reasoning but satisfies your concern too.

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#8
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some issues with "Intellectual Property Right" in my job contract, as I have my llc company, but I am seeking permanent job, in the contract says that, what ever I learn there tools, knowledge etc, I cannot use anywhere else. And if I register domain or what ever I have to handover everything... so now not sure what to do...

1. DO NOT SIGN IT. You will be signing away your rights. 2. Either walk away, or hire a lawyer to help you make changes. I've worked with Rex Baker ( http://www.rexbaker.com/ ) and he is a good guy.

I need someone for United Kingdom...

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#9
This is the part I do not like: i) Due to the nature of your duties and your particular responsibilities, you recognise that you have an obligation to further the interests of company “B”.

ii) If you make an Invention in the course of your duties for us, you must disclose it to us at once. That Invention will belong to us. If we obtain a patent for that Invention, however, you may be entitled to compensation for it in accordance with the Patents Act 1977 s.40.

iii) Subject to ii), all Intellectual Property Rights that come into existence during the normal course of your employment or by using materials, tools or knowledge made available through your employment, will belong to us or any of the Group Companies which we nominate. If required to do so (whether during or after the termination of your employment), you must sign any document and do anything necessary to vest ownership in these rights in us as sole beneficial owner. Where ownership does not automatic ally vest by Act of Parliament, you must immediately assign all your interests to us. You irrevocably waive all your rights pursuant to sections 77 to 83 inclusive of the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.

iv) The provisions of this clause 3 (c) shall remain in full force and effect following any termination of this agreement for any reason, whether such termination is lawful or not.

Any thoughts?

Re: Can developers read/interpret law clauses?

#10
post #9

This is the part I do not like: i) Due to the nature of your duties and your particular responsibilities, you recognise that you have an obligation to further the interests of company “B”. ii) If you make an Invention in the course of your duties for us, you must disclose it to us at once. That Invention will belong to us. If we obtain a patent for that Invention, however, you may be entitled to compensation for it i…

"Intellectual Property Rights" - Copyright and related rights, registered designs, trademarks, service marks, trade names and domain names, rights in get-up, rights in goodwill or to sue for passing off, rights in designs, rights in computer software, database rights, rights in confidential information (including know-how and trade secrets) rights in and to any inventions, patents, design patents, utility patents and any other intellectual property rights, in each case whether registered or unregistered and including all applications (or rights to apply) for, and renewals or extensions of, such rights and all similar or equivalent rights o r forms of protection which may now or in the future subsist in any part of the world.

"Inventions" - Inventions, ideas and improvements, whether or not patentable, and whether or not recorded in any medium.

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