Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#1

Post by under_siege » Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

I am looking for articles or research related to the optimization of timing the ingest of nutrients around periods of rest and exercise.

Basic idea is this:

You work out on Monday, Wednesday and Friday early AM. Let's say you lift for a couple of hours from 6 AM until 8 PM.

When should you ingest nutrients in order to optimally provide the body with what it needs to repair and grow? What nutrient mix is necessary and in what quantities in relation to body mass?

It seems reasonable to assume that the body will not benefit from anything you ate 24 hours earlier, say, Sunday's breakfast for a Monday 6:00AM workout. How, then, should nutrition timing, mix and quantity change during rest days in order to, again, optimize for the delivery of what the body needs and not overshoot.

The hypothesis here is that eating the same meals every day with total disregard of the physical activity taking place does not seem sensible or optimal.

If you work out hard on Monday morning and will sit in front of a computer, couch, sleep for most of the 48 hours following your workout surely you don't need nutrients at the same intensity, volume and mix as you did a few hours before and a few hours after the workout.

Does anyone know of literature/research in this area. Not necessarily interested in "gym wisdom" from the likes of typical bodybuilding sites. Most of that stuff isn't reliable enough to take seriously.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#2

Post by serg_chernata » Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 8:22 PM UTC

I am also very curious and will hope for a response from someone far more knowledgeable.

However, from my own research and experience I actually think there is no real answer someone else can give you. All of our bodies are different. Beyond that, the dietary advice we all choose to follow is even more different. I have a friend who basically fasts yet works out twice a day. I myself do something reminiscent of intermittent fasting with a touch of keto macros and do fairly well. Others follow a more "typical" diet and do just fine in their own ways.

My point is, get some basics and then just see what works for you.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#3

Post by under_siege » Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

I am also very curious and will hope for a response from someone far more knowledgeable. However, from my own research and experience I actually think there is no real answer someone else can give you. All of our bodies are different. Beyond that, the dietary advice we all choose to follow is even more different. I have a friend who basically fasts yet works out twice a day. I myself do something reminiscent of inter…

At some level there's also the definition of "working out".

I am on a lifting program where strength is the goal, not bulking out. We add 5 lbs every workout session (15 lbs per week) to every exercise. In a couple of cases this has come down to 2.5 lbs per day as it has gotten harder to maintain the prior pace.

The point is that this is very different from someone who gets on the treadmill every day to run for one hour. That's more of a steady state routine where balancing nutrition is far easier.

In my case I need to eat more. A lot more. No other way to maintain the pace of strength gains.

What I am after is an approach to nutritional optimization that allows me to feed my system as much as it needs to be able to do the work during workout days yet not over feed it during the 46 hour rest period.

In other words, feed for the 2 hour workout as well as whatever is necessary for recovery + muscle growth but don't over-feed because you could go backwards during those 46 hours.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#4

Post by gadders » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 10:34 AM UTC

I think you may have to rely on experienced trainers rather than research papers as the research may not have been done or be poorly designed. The other option is to experiment on yourself and find what works for you.

One thing I would expect, though, is that unless you're a professional athlete chasing that last 1% of performance, the difference in effects is unlikely to be noticeable.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#5

Post by eswat » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 10:53 AM UTC

You may find plenty of results if you search for “[macronutrient keyword] intake timing” on PubMed. But as mentioned in another comment it may be worthwhile to find trainers or dieticians who have been doing this for a long time and see if they had written up anything based on their findings with their clients. You get the best of both the anecdotal and controlled experiment worlds.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#6

Post by serg_chernata » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

under_siege wrote: post #3

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

I am also very curious and will hope for a response from someone far more knowledgeable. However, from my own research and experience I actually think there is no real answer someone else can give you. All of our bodies are different. Beyond that, the dietary advice we all choose to follow is even more different. I have a friend who basically fasts yet works out twice a day. I myself do something reminiscent of inter…

At some level there's also the definition of "working out". I am on a lifting program where strength is the goal, not bulking out. We add 5 lbs every workout session (15 lbs per week) to every exercise. In a couple of cases this has come down to 2.5 lbs per day as it has gotten harder to maintain the prior pace. The point is that this is very different from someone who gets on the treadmill every day to run for one h…

Yeah the funny thing is, one particular kid, in my previous comment, that barely eats at all is the one doing the most insane workouts. We're talking 6-8 miles of really fast cardio runs or days of pretty heavy lifting. Everyone is so different.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#7

Post by under_siege » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 5:06 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #4

I think you may have to rely on experienced trainers rather than research papers as the research may not have been done or be poorly designed. The other option is to experiment on yourself and find what works for you. One thing I would expect, though, is that unless you're a professional athlete chasing that last 1% of performance, the difference in effects is unlikely to be noticeable.

This is what I am starting to see. It looks like most "research" out there is the typical "20 college students for one semester" case with flawed data and questionable approaches.

Re: Timing nutrition around exercise and rest

#8

Post by chatmasta » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 12:16 PM UTC

I ran track in college and the most critical rule we followed was that after a workout, you have 45 minutes to get your protein intake. This promotes optimal muscle recovery. At the time we would drink a supplement called Endurox with a 4:1 carbs:protein ratio immediately after workout. It was great because we didn't get to dinner until about 90-120 minutes after workout.

Now that I graduated and no longer compete, I keep it simple. I usually run about six miles with a stop in the middle to do body weight workouts at a calisthenics park (pull-ups, dips, push-ups, l sits, etc). When I get back, I drink a chocolate milk immediately to hold me over while I shower and prepare a more substantial meal. Chocolate milk is a great source of protein. For the meal, I usually have some combination of chicken, pasta, salad and vegetables.

Other than that, the only hard rule I follow is to eat breakfast every day, usually scrambled eggs with cheese. And some fruit throughout the rest of the day.

On days when I don't exercise, I usually eat similar foods but in smaller quantities. I basically just listen to my body and if I'm hungry, I eat more. If I'm not, I eat less.