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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#991

Post by sporkxrocket »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #626
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

> Israel lost the information/media war so damn badly that it may genuinely not recover from this Israel probably came out ahead if all they lost is prestige. They've neutered Iran and become the de facto regional security power. Their weapons and military have been validated, which makes than a desirable trading partner in an increasingly-militarising world. And they're turning into a gas exporter. Worst case, a gen…

They haven't "neutered" Iran, all they've proven is that they're actually quite ineffective against Iran and Yemen. They've also become the most hated country in all of the world. Their citizens have to hide their citizenship when they travel back to Europe. Israel won't last another 10 years.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#992

Post by sporkxrocket »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #771
swat535 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've neutered Iran and become the de facto regional security power How did they "neuter" Iran? Iran responded quickly and managed to heavily damage TelAviv and is now rushing to accelerate rebuilding their nuclear capabilities. If anything, the previous operation was a disaster, it allowed to regime to entrench itself even further in IRAN and regime change that they were hoping for didn't happen. I'm sure both I…

> How did they "neuter" Iran? Iran responded quickly and managed to heavily damage TelAviv Israel gained air superiority over Iran and successfully conducted military decapitation strikes. Iran sort of launched some half-assed rockets in Israel's direction. The only damage Israel has suffered is to its intelligence faculties in Iran. > the previous operation was a disaster, it allowed to regime to entrench itself eve…

If Israel had air superiority over Iran, Iran would not be able to bomb Tel Aviv at will.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#993

Post by sporkxrocket »

YZF wrote: post #645
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

So what would you do if you're Israel? Suck it up? Leave the hostages to rot in Gaza? Wait until the next coordinated attack from Iran, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza? Israel's enemies want it destroyed- that's what's at stake here. If Hamas had a chance it would keep going and murder all Israelis, not just the ones they managed to before they were repelled. What sort of adaptation are you proposing? I do agr…

I would never be in Israel's position because I don't believe in genocide or land theft, thus would not have created this fake state in the first place.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#994

Post by Glyptodon »

fsckboy wrote: post #691
Glyptodon wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big question for me continues to be how much of Israel's behavior isn't really about best options for Israel as a state, but power politics for particular political factions internally.

but that's how every polity operates, you can't influence it more than people already try to influence it. you can ask the same of Hamas, is theirs the policy the populace wants? Israel does have a robust free speech democracy and you can easily learn what many of the different factions think, and like elections anywhere, you don't know till afterward how it plays out, and voters are always disappointed by the way po…

Yes and no - arguably most would define "pursuing negative outcomes to reinforce a fraction's power" as misoperation within governance and even 200+ years ago understanding this lead to things like Washington's warnings about factions and political parties.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#995

Post by grumple »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #939
grumple wrote: post #931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mortality exceeding the rate I mentioned is a prerequisite for declaring stage 5. It has not been met. You don’t declare stage 5 until it has according to their own standards. The rate of death in Gaza from those causes is nowhere near that CDR. The total death rate from all causes is substantially below that number (by a factor of 4).

> The mortality exceeding the rate I mentioned is a prerequisite for declaring stage 5 Source? > The total death rate from all causes is substantially below that number (by a factor of 4) You're still making the mistake of taking statistics from across Gaza and pretending that's relevant. Based on your method, there has never been a crime wave anywhere in the world because the global crime rate tends to be somewhat s…

> Source?

Literally the OP and the magical thing called math I did in my last post.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#996

Post by deepsun »

bigyabai wrote: post #672
deepsun wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

- De-escalate. Disproportionate violence legitimizes Gaza's resistance, reinforces domestic support for retaliation and signals to third-parties like China and Russia that they need to have a stakeholder in this fight. It also weakens American support for Israeli right-to-defense. - Negotiate a release of all illegally held hostages and fair international trial for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli detainment. Hamas s…

> De-escalate.

That's easy -- releasing all hostages would de-escalate immediately. Imagine a situation when there was no Oct 7, so Israel would have no reason to de-escalate.

> Negotiate

How to negotiate with one side pre-condition that the other side is all dead and their country does not exist. Now it starts to change, but not because of negotiations, sadly.

> Establish a good-faith interrim government

Sorry don't understand -- Gaza already has the official government -- HAMAS. Since 2007 there was no Israeli forces on Gaza territory (until Oct 7).

Or you mean Israel should've established a different goverment in Gaza? Well taking down governments is already a military objective.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#997

Post by asdefghyk »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

Well Hamas did write they want to kill all Israel. Hamas did slaughter , rape and torture 1200 civilians , children and babies. and take at least another 200? hostage Then paraded some of them thru Gaza. Exactly what response did Hamas expect. Also Trump has said 30,000 of the cira 60000 dead are Hamas fighters.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#998

Post by asdefghyk »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

I thought Israel said its (strategy?) aim was to remove? Hamas so it could no longer be a threat.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#999

Post by sudosysgen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #979
sudosysgen wrote: post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran being neutered is propaganda that is necessary for the (failed, for now) Israeli plan of regime change. Iran maintains the ability to build ballistic missiles in large numbers, greatly depleted Israel-US BMD reserves, continues to build even more reinforced nuclear sites. Neutering those capabilities was the main goal of the 12 day war and by most accounts, that didn't work. Israel did not manage air superiority…

> Iran being neutered is propaganda that is necessary for the (failed, for now) Israeli plan of regime change. Iran maintains the ability to build ballistic missiles in large numbers Iran hasn't been neutralised. It was just reduced to a non-threat during the war. Of course it maintains future capabilities that could be threatening. > That's not something you do when you've managed to neuter your opponent Why not? It…

> Iran hasn't been neutralised. It was just reduced to a non-threat during the war. Of course it maintains future capabilities that could be threatening.

I wouldn't call 10 ballistic missiles hits in a day a non-threat. If they were accurate that's a significant threat: enough to disable all BMD radars in a day, and over a week to disable airbases.

The most important factor that made them less threatening is the lack of pinpoint accuracy, and that is not something that changed over the course of the war.

> Why not? It's an information war.

Getting caught using fabricated imagery is inevitable within a couple days, so that's not something you'd want to do in an information war if you are looking for long term effect, unless you have to.

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