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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#661

Post by bigyabai »

SilverElfin wrote: post #604
ReptileMan wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful, they have been spending tremendous efforts and the population of Gaza has barely bulged downwards. If this is genocide, they are shitty at it.

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> they could have leveled most of Gaza in the first week following the terrorism of October 7.

How exactly would we know the difference from this hypothetical and reality? 92% of the livable housing in Gaza was demolished or damaged following October 7th: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1616491/gaza-war-infrast...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#662

Post by JumpCrisscross »

churchill wrote: post #653
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cutting off that source of FX would literally half the economy overnight because cash would stop sloshing around internally from its main sources My point is this isn't a realistic threat for Israel. Its exports are highly desirable to too many parties. Technology. Weapons. Energy. There is too much money to be made, too much advantage to be had. Yes, if the war in Gaza continues for another decade, Israel will run…

>My point is this isn't a realistic threat for Israel. Its exports are highly desirable to too many parties. Technology. Weapons. Energy. Everything Israel makes is fungible. The middle east is a river of gas. Israel's defense technology industry can't exist without Western partners. Hell, America denying them F35 repairs/upgrades effectively kills their airforce. >Yes, if the war in Gaza continues for another half d…

> Everything Israel makes is fungible

Israeli weapons are absolutely not fungible, particularly not for non-Western buyers. And something being fungible doesn't make it less valuable.

> America denying them F35 repairs/upgrades effectively kills their airforce

Correct. I am guessing we'll see diversification here.

> India cannot even field 4.5 generation jets. Their airforce (French Rafales) got whooped in the recent confrontation with Pakistan

...and guess who makes a state-of-the-art integrated air defences? And knows how to penetrate (and thus harden) state-of-the-art Russian air defence systems?

> China, trying to project an image of fairness to the third-world, as an alternative power, supports a two-state solution

Uh, China is doing whatever it can to keep America distracted. If Israel can give China technology, China will continue calling for a two-state solution while buying what it needs. (Chinese-Israeli trade has increased throughout the war.)

> have my gripes with the West but they're still a superpower bloc. If they sanction you, you're fucked

Israel is not at material risk of blanket sanctions from the West in the next decade. And being a democracy, there is a lot of good a change of face can do.

> 53% of their exports are technology goods

Why does this have to go to America and Western Europe?

> China has their Islamist problem under control and they won't want to offend the moneybag Arabs by supporting Israel

Which of the Arab monarchies is particularly distressed with Israel? Which has even walked back its previous support and recognition? The Gulf is more than happy for Israel to fight their wars against Iran. If the war dies down, they've got more important things to worry about. (Their populations have never liked Israel. Not super relevant.)

It seems that everyone in this conflict has doomsday fantasies for their opponents. The Gazans will all shrivel up and die. Israel will poof away because young Americans decide foreign policy--not jobs or housing or the rule of law--is their single issue. These extreme outcomes are incredibly unlikely.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#663

Post by Tehnix »

Nothing has opened my eyes more to how much mainstream media is distorting reality to fit their narrative, than the genocide Israel is committing in Gaza.

You can sit with literal video of an incident, and then see media headlines tell a completely different story than what actually happened.

Social media in our generation has been a weird amplifier of both misinformation as well as truth from the ground that contradicts misinformation in the media.

My selection of topics I trust media to report on has greatly narrowed down to ones that are completely apolitical, which is sad (they’ve always been biased, but at least I felt you could tell that they were biased and read through it).

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#664

Post by jameshilliard »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #658
jameshilliard wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. After the October 7 attacks it was critical that Israel re-establish deterrence, not doing so would be inviting more attacks. > Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, which played directly into the dynamics of guerrilla warfare where a strong state's extreme actions ag…

> After the October 7 attacks it was critical that Israel re-establish deterrence, not doing so would be inviting more attacks Sure. They did that when they killed Sinwar. After that, they could have just continued to Mossad individual leaders in Hamas. > Israel losing the media war was probably somewhat inevitable, the extreme disparity between worldwide Muslim population sizes and Jewish population sizes being a bi…

> Sure. They did that when they killed Sinwar. After that, they could have just continued to Mossad individual leaders in Hamas.

Killing one enemy leader is insufficient to re-establish deterrence, with how severe the October 7 attacks were I don't think Israel can possibly accept any outcome that doesn't effectively remove Hamas from power in Gaza.

> Not relevant to America.

It still has some effect in America, but less so than other parts of the world.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#665

Post by bigyabai »

SilverElfin wrote: post #603
sirfz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians. Hamas were ready from day one for a deal, their goal (contrary to israeli narrative of course) was to negotiate prisoner exchange for the 1000s of Palesitnian prisoners held by israel (including children). This is still their goal along with ceasefire and complete withdrawal from Gaza.

> The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians First, there is no such thing as a Palestinian - that’s a made up identity to falsely claim the region as their own. Second, there have been five two-state solution offers in the past, that Israel was ready to accept. Leaders on the other side refused. Third, Hamas is not accepting the current deal that is on the table,…

> First, there is no such thing as a Palestinian

A quote from the Minutes of the Ninth Session of the League of Nations, 1922:

  Colonel Symes explained that the country was described as "Palestine" by Europeans and as "Falestin" by the Arabs. The Hebrew name for the country was the designation "Land of Israel", and the Government, to meet Jewish wishes, had agreed that the word "Palestine" in Hebrew characters should be followed in all official documents by the initials which stood for that designation.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110628180414/http://domino.un....

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#666

Post by holmesworcester »

jameshilliard wrote: post #652
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

> Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. After the October 7 attacks it was critical that Israel re-establish deterrence, not doing so would be inviting more attacks. > Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, which played directly into the dynamics of guerrilla warfare where a strong state's extreme actions ag…

A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in.

If Israel would like to give Gaza full sovereignty, or Palestinians born inside the occupied territories the right to vote in the federal systems that determine their law enforcement environment, we can talk about deterrence and law enforcement respectively.

Israel has unilateral control of who it recognizes as its citizens, and what sovereign states it recognizes. No complaint about current or past bad behavior by the Palestinians excuses its failure to grant sovereignty or voting rights to people under its territorial control.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#667

Post by deepsun »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#668

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jameshilliard wrote: post #664
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the October 7 attacks it was critical that Israel re-establish deterrence, not doing so would be inviting more attacks Sure. They did that when they killed Sinwar. After that, they could have just continued to Mossad individual leaders in Hamas. > Israel losing the media war was probably somewhat inevitable, the extreme disparity between worldwide Muslim population sizes and Jewish population sizes being a bi…

> Sure. They did that when they killed Sinwar. After that, they could have just continued to Mossad individual leaders in Hamas. Killing one enemy leader is insufficient to re-establish deterrence, with how severe the October 7 attacks were I don't think Israel can possibly accept any outcome that doesn't effectively remove Hamas from power in Gaza. > Not relevant to America. It still has some effect in America, but…

> Killing one enemy leader is insufficient to re-establish deterrence

They'd killed more than one at that point. Like, Hezbollah got the message pretty clearly.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#669

Post by mikeen »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#670

Post by FridayoLeary »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #656
FridayoLeary wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the situation on October 7. 6000 armed terrorists swarmed across the border of gaza, commiting atrocities the like of which were not even thought to be possible in todays day and age among civilised people. I was never under any illusion of what hamas was and i was still shocked. The political climate in Israel up until that day was trying to help gazas economy and assuming hamas were pragmatic enough not to…

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