All I see is sour grapes. Can't stand someone else coming up with a far more superior and cheaper alternative. This is business dude. There's always going to be some new disruptor to shake the market up.
OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
991–1000 of 1001 posts
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#992Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would it cast any doubt? If you can use o1 output to build a better R1. Then use R1 output to build a better X1... then a better X2.. XN, that just shows a method to create better systems for a fraction of the cost from where we stand. If it was that obvious OpenAI should have themselves done. But the disruptors did it. It hindsight it might sound obvious, but that is true for all innovations. It is all good stuf…
I think it would cast doubt on the narrative "you could have trained o1 with much less compute, and r1 is proof of that", if it turned out that in order to train r1 in the first place, you had to have access to bunch of outputs from o1. In other words, you had to do the really expensive o1 training in the first place. (with the caveat that all we have right now are accusations that DeepSeek made use of OpenAI data -…
You mean to create an apple pie from scratch you first have to invent the universe?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#993The public probably thinks that these companies are getting hacked by "sophisticated hackers" but I'd bet money that they've been hacked via social engineering.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#994> “It is (relatively) easy to copy something that you know works,” Altman tweeted. “It is extremely hard to do something new, risky, and difficult when you don’t know if it will work.” The humor/hypocrisy of the situation aside, it does seem to be true that OpenAI is consistently the one coming up with new ideas first (GPT 4, o1, 4o-style multimodality, voice chat, DALL-E, …) and then other companies reproduce their…
I may be wrong, but to my knowledge OpenAI: - did not invent transformer architecture - did not invent diffusion architecture - did not come up with the idea for multi-modality - did not invent the notion/architecture of the latest “agentic” models They simply were the first to aggressively pursue scaling the transformer to the extent that is normal for the industry today. Although this has proven to produce interest…
As far as I can tell, OpenAI really did invent RLHF in its current form. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1909.08593
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#995I think there's two different things going on here: "DeepSeek trained on our outputs and that's not fair because those outputs are ours, and you shouldn't take other peoples' data!" This is obviously extremely silly, because that's exactly how OpenAI got all of its training data in the first place - by scraping other peoples' data off the internet. "DeepSeek trained on our outputs, and so their claims of replicating…
This is a fascinating development because AI models may turn out to be like pharmaceuticals. The first pill costs $500 million to make, the second one costs pennies.
The solution is to create a health insurance system which burdens only Americans with the $500m cost, while India is allowed to make the drug for pennies for the rest of the world.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#996Who else cares?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#997this is pretty ridiculous A. below is a list of OpenAI initial hires from Google. It's implausible to me that there wasn't quite significant transfer of Google IP B. google published extensively, including the famous 'attention is all you need' paper, but open-ai despite its name, has not explained the breakthroughs that enabled O1. It has also switched from a charity to a for-profit company. C. Now this company, wit…
my_ridiculous_list = ["Ilya Sutskever"]
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#998Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is obviously extremely silly, because that's exactly how OpenAI got all of its training data IANAL, but It is worth noting here that DeepSeek has explicitly consented to a license that doesn't allow them to do this . That is a condition of using the Chat GPT and the OpenAI API. Even if the courts affirm that there's a fair use defence for AI training, DeepSeek may still be in the wrong here, not because of cop…
> DeepSeek has explicitly consented to a license that doesn't allow them to do this. You actually don’t know this. Even if it were true that they used OpenAI outputs (and I’m very doubtful) it’s not necessary to sign an agreement with OpenAI to get API outputs. You simply acquire them from an intermediary, so that you have no contractual relationship with OpenAI to begin with.
I figured those contracts with an intermediary would extend to anyone they re-sell to, or prohibit them from re-selling...
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#999Who tf cares?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#1000Earlier quoted context omitted.
> DeepSeek has explicitly consented to a license that doesn't allow them to do this. You actually don’t know this. Even if it were true that they used OpenAI outputs (and I’m very doubtful) it’s not necessary to sign an agreement with OpenAI to get API outputs. You simply acquire them from an intermediary, so that you have no contractual relationship with OpenAI to begin with.
I figured those contracts with an intermediary would extend to anyone they re-sell to, or prohibit them from re-selling...
You are free to publish your conversations with ChatGPT on the Internet, where they can be picked up by scrapers. US ruled that they are not covered by copyright...