Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

991–1000 of 1001 posts

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#991

Post by russellbeattie »

demadog wrote: post #242
jianshen wrote: post #201

What is his motivation for this right now? Is it just the distraction of the week or was there a specific incident recently that triggered this?

There’s likely a lot that is not and will never be covered in the news that the NSA and CIA know. I’m sure they look at our commentary on here, with 1% of the geopolitical information, and chuckle.

Do you really think this has anything to do with national security? Don't be naive. Trump hasn't listened to the CIA or the NSA in 3½ years, he's not starting now. This is 100% pure political grandstanding and retaliation for the Tulsa rally. Assuming otherwise is giving way, way, way too much credit.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#992

Post by dang »

illustriousbear wrote: post #812
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

Genuinely surprised that Chinese shills / psyops are targetting HackerNews. Seeing a lot of comments like this one which follow the standard handbook response.

You can't post like this to HN. It's explicitly against the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Such perceptions are overwhelmingly imaginary and made-up, if the data and evidence are to be trusted, and meanwhile comments like this poison discussion badly. If you have evidence of abuse, let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we can look into it. If you don't have evidence, please don't post insinuations of sinister spying and all the rest of it.

Someone posting a comment you disagree with does not count as evidence.

If you want more explanation, there's years' worth at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

and https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#993

Post by hintymad »

powerapple wrote: post #558
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

Just to correct some details: Netflix, LinkedIn, Bing are not banned in China.

Netflix is not banned explicitly. They just can't get a license to operate in China. In addition, VPNs are actively hunted down by the Chinese government so legally speaking VPNs are banned in China, which means a Chinese resident won't be able to watch Netflix anyway -- that is, Netflix is practically banned.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#994

Post by hintymad »

usaar333 wrote: post #718
throw33432 wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did China ban them? I thought they refused to follow China’s censorship laws? Skype is available in a China.

Well, they have a national firewall that blocks connections to them, so I'd consider that banning.

Exactly. We should look at results, not legal frameworks -- they are different in the two countries anyway. Plus, free trade is all about be fair. Why would the US let Chinese company make huge amount of money when the US companies can't be treated quid pro quo? For the ideal of "free trade" or "globalization is good" or "one globe one people"? I respect that, but I don't want to be the person who sustain the loss.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#995

Post by hintymad »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #519
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

This is a fallacious argument. For example when Google worked in China they were ripped apart for doing that, and so decided not to. Most of these companies could work in China if they followed Chinese rules. They decided not to, so they don't.

No, that's not true. Google was hacked by Chinese government, multiple times. Google was harassed by Chinese government, multiple times. And I'm not talking about some conspiracy theory. Let me give examples that were publicly reported. Did you know that Google's DNS was hijacked and redirected to baidu.com? Did you know that Google was forced to stop its business because of a single phone call that Google's search results returned so called porn pictures, when baidu hosts millions of more? Did you know that the Chinese government never gave Google a list of blocked phrases, yet it expected Google to come up with the ones that met their "regulation". When Google couldn't, Google was punished.

Yeah, Google didn't play by Chinese rules, as if they could. If this is not banning, I don't know what is.

Besides, the US government did play by the rule of the US regulation. For one, did ByteDance seek clearance from CFIUS when purchasing music.ly?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#996

Post by ken47 »

president wrote: post #866
ken47 wrote: post #845

No one forced American corporations to do business with China. America's current lack of "greatness" is America's own fault. There is a nonzero chance that America is going to face serious economic distress in the coming decade. Those who made poor leadership decisions for America's economy are desperate to find a scapegoat. No one forced American corporations to do business with China.

Your scapegoat narrative is an unproductive one and apologist at worst. As usual, people are getting wrapped up in the "America bad" trope while ignoring the fact that there are real people being targeted and having their lives tracked and terrorized by the Chinese government. I don't know what country you're from but if someone was behaving badly in your house, I would be kicking them out too. You'd have to be stupi…

I'm definitely not a China apologist. This story would be a comedy if it were not a tragedy.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#997

Post by chillacy »

mlindner wrote: post #289
chillacy wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This plays right into China's narrative. Now the arrest of Meng Wanzhou (Huawei CTO) starts to look a bit less principled and a bit more like a piece of realpolitik. I think it's definitely justified in the sense that it's understandable to strike back, but it's hard to take a moral high ground now.

But only China believes China's narrative... Just ask any of China's neighbors. Philippines is reversing course of late even though they were trying to get closer to China, for example.

Out of curiosity I dug up some of the research, at least as of 6 months ago (haven't found anything more recent) it's fair to say that overall APAC leans towards "unfavorable" in its attitude towards China.

Favorability is down double digits from 2018 in APAC (though strangely up double digits in parts of europe).

So "only china believes china's narrative" isn't super technically correct but I think the general sentiment is accurate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/12/05/attitudes-towa...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#998

Post by pradn »

charia wrote: post #813
pradn wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance 'The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that, "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."'

Any view can be described as intolerant. Stamping out, “intolerant” views is one of the reasons many authoritarian regimes uses to stamp out dissent. The United States did this when it persecuted leftist sympathizing folks back in the 50's. "If we don't kill communism, then communism will kill our society. These filthy socialists and communists preach intolerance with rhetoric against the hardworking American. Tolera…

What would you suggest the citizens of Weimar Germany in the 1920s and early 1930s do to prevent the rise of Nazism while also being tolerant?

Fascism and Stalinism are two endpoints of Enlightenment thinking. Is it merely utopian to aspire for tolerance when it's clear that it can lead to the depths of brutality and stupidity?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#999

Post by notSupplied »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #902
will4274 wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your comment to be in bad faith. You failed to address Chinese bans of American companies, which was the thrust of parent's comment, and which is obviously the unfair imbalance China created. Quoting imbalance but ignoring the example is bad faith.

Very few American companies are banned from China. The parent's comment is based on false premises about the economic relationship between the US and China.

Yes, China very selectively bans American companies, just as the US is now very selectively banning the same types of companies. It’s just Mercantilism: be open in all ways except the key industries you wish to develop domestically. I don’t think mercantilism is fundamentally evil (it’s how Japan and South Korea became wealthy first world nations at certain American industries expense) but don’t cry when your trade partners bite back.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#1000

Post by sudoaza »

xvector wrote: post #641
sudoaza wrote: post #553

This should be taken to the WTO if it wasn't coopted by the US and allies

Won’t make a difference, Trump would sooner pull out of the WTO than have his decisions dictated by it.

True, but that might even be a good thing.
Post reply on HN