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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#981

Post by mrcwinn »

justin66 wrote: post #456
mrcwinn wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the Jewish community, so I don’t say this lightly, but I view Netanyahu actions as somewhat resembling Nazi Germany in one respect (though certainly not others). He may not believe Israeli Jews have a birthright to the whole world (rather they are trying to strengthen one nation’s borders), but there is no doubt in my mind they are indiscriminately cleansing a people out of existence. That is their aim, beyond…

> Israel in another 10 years might not be recognizable. The strange thing is, this statement held true before October 7th. Hopefully not everyone has forgotten that there were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets before the war, protesting what Netanyahu was doing to the Israeli government.

Yes, I acknowledge this and it’s a good point. I just hope both sides can find peace and security. The humans of both sides deserve it. I just hope the leaders’ and politicians’ interests align with those whom they represent.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#982

Post by latentcall »

mikrotikker wrote: post #888
tkel wrote: post #13

We already knew this was happening from testimony from Gazans, it was obvious that the new US-Israeli monopolized "aid" organization was running the Hunger Games, with dozens killed by Israelis (+ US contractors) every time there was a distribution day, and horrific pictures and video of it. Entirely predictable too when the genocidaires are controlling the aid. It is good there is now proof from the inside as well.

[flagged]

I see new videos everyday of massacres. Saw one yesterday of a baby burned to a crisp. What is your email? I can send it to you if you’d like so you can discern if the Palestinians are lying.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#983

Post by 7sigma »

ost-ing wrote: post #827
7sigma wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they are not native doesn't mean they can't live there, but they shouldn't live while oppressing the native Palestinians and prevent them from returning in order to preserve an ethnic majority. Jews outside of Palestine are not uniquely descended from Jews that lived there 2000 years ago. Also the idea of Jews as a homogeneous people is a fairly recent phenomenon, people married into Jewish families, con…

> Just because they are not native doesn't mean they can't live there I don't make a claim that they should or should not be allowed to live there. My statement isnt about rights to land, oppressing others or national zionism. My statement is about heritage and what it means to be “native”, obviously what that means for people and genetic links to semitic peoples varies greatly, and as such, you cannot make blanket s…

Which is why i said this: "Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded."

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#984

Post by egisspegis »

hermitcrab wrote: post #974
egisspegis wrote: post #946

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel's intended end game seem to be to make Gaza completely uninhabitable, so that the Palestinians are forced to leave In a context where hamas declared (multiple times) that they will repeat October 7 forever, how is this a bad outcome for Israel? Why it doesn't make sense to you that Western states are supporting Israel? It would be baffling (for me at least) if any state in the world would deal with terrorist…

>Why it doesn't make sense to you that Western states are supporting Israel? Because they are supporting the destruction and displacement of an entire people. Only a tiny percentage of whom were involved in the Hamas atrocity. I don't want my country supplying bombs that are going to be dropped on Palestinian hospitals, universities and residential areas.

> Only a tiny percentage of whom were involved in the Hamas atrocity

It's not a tiny percentage. It's the majority. That's how autocracies stay in power.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#985

Post by egisspegis »

peppers-ghost wrote: post #976
egisspegis wrote: post #943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you're the leader of Israel. October 7 happens. And there's a multiple declarations from hamas, that they will repeat it forever, given a chance. What do you do?

Maybe consider why the people your country has tortured for 70+ years has a dislike of you. October 7th was not the beginning of history.

It wasn't. But, if you look at it, history is on the side of Israel. I don't recall any terrorist attacks done by Israel, but I do recall at least a dozen done by hamas. Also, there were 0 (zero) jews in Gaza for the last 20 years or so.

In any case, the question wasn't about history. It was about specific situation that requires specific decisions. Yet you deflected the question entirely. While, at the same time, showing lack of historical knowledge. Saddest thing here is that I'm not surprised anymore to get "answers" like these from people like you.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#986

Post by rexpop »

keutoi wrote: post #612
exodust wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "surface patina" Tell that to the victims of gleeful brutality under the guidance of fundamentalist ideology, like that engrained in Islamist governance and extremist militant groups. Your post reads like the come-down from intellectual pill-popping. Your attempt to dilute a serious problem in the world to "patinas" and reduce the problem to imperial vs colonized peoples, sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a…

>The subjugation of "infidels" under expansionist oppressive religious groups with the intent to bring "peace" is an imperialism all of its own, but much worse. Peace... at the cost of freedom, autonomy, expression, equality. Are you arguing for or against Israel?

Very clever! But Islamist countries are far more brutal than Israel—and far more Muslim than Israel is Jewish.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#987

Post by rexpop »

exodust wrote: post #504
rexpop wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> two ideologies which are so diametrically opposed to each other that they cannot coexist Ideologies aren't platonic solids. They must be constantly refurbished in the minds of the avowed. Every moment of every day informs them—reinforces or depletes them. Changes their character. It's guaranteed that these minds will, eventually, change. Who survives to bare this change remains to be seen. Keep in mind, also, that…

> "surface patina" Tell that to the victims of gleeful brutality under the guidance of fundamentalist ideology, like that engrained in Islamist governance and extremist militant groups. Your post reads like the come-down from intellectual pill-popping. Your attempt to dilute a serious problem in the world to "patinas" and reduce the problem to imperial vs colonized peoples, sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a…

> Consider the framing, you ask. I considered it and reject it

Thank you for taking the time. I won't argue with your point that Islamist nations are, on the whole, far more brutal than Israel has yet had a chance to be. There is no Judaic Daesh, for example, and none of the well-documented atrocities of the IDF come close.

> sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a university activist encampment

I'm a technology professional without a university degree, only a passion for my craft and a pride in my handiwork. I happen to be a Torah scholar, as well, and it's through that lens I condemn Israel's complicity in the maintainance of the international caste system.

On the other hand, what choice do they have? To make an enemy of capital, with no allies?

Israel is a bit of a kapo. But at least it's not a Saud.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#988

Post by runarberg »

rexpop wrote: post #987
exodust wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "surface patina" Tell that to the victims of gleeful brutality under the guidance of fundamentalist ideology, like that engrained in Islamist governance and extremist militant groups. Your post reads like the come-down from intellectual pill-popping. Your attempt to dilute a serious problem in the world to "patinas" and reduce the problem to imperial vs colonized peoples, sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a…

> Consider the framing, you ask. I considered it and reject it Thank you for taking the time. I won't argue with your point that Islamist nations are, on the whole, far more brutal than Israel has yet had a chance to be. There is no Judaic Daesh, for example, and none of the well-documented atrocities of the IDF come close. > sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a university activist encampment I'm a technology…

> There is no Judaic Daesh, for example, and none of the well-documented atrocities of the IDF come close.

Ideologically there is an argument to be had that the most extreme versions of Zionism (e.g. Kahanism) is just as bad as the fundamentalist (and racist) ideology of ISIS. Behaviorally the IDF is far worse then ISIS ever had a chance to be. The total number of atrocities, the impunity of their actions, the systematic nature of them, the backing of the entire state apparatus behind those atrocities, the number of victims, and the concentrated location of those victims makes the IDF far far worse.

Of course it is very silly to compare atrocities, one should try not to do that, as one set of victims deserve justice just as equally as any other set of victims.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#989

Post by petra »

StochasticLi wrote: post #625
petra wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What do you think is a proper solution? 30% being pro genocide is insane.

A proper solution ?

I have ideas, but their value is mostly in making me sound smart.

In reality I don't have realistic, implementable ideas on how to get out of this mess. Just wishes.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#990

Post by aucisson_masque »

egisspegis wrote: post #943
aucisson_masque wrote: post #879

I know it’s an overly simplified view but it’s becoming more and more of a reality, Israel is the 21th century nazi. Yeah it’s not aryan but israelian race that is superior to the Arabians, what’s the difference ? They don’t send them in camp, they just destroy completely their land, demolish and populate with israelian. What’s the difference ? A family without home and earning is as good as dead. There is still some…

Imagine you're the leader of Israel. October 7 happens. And there's a multiple declarations from hamas, that they will repeat it forever, given a chance. What do you do?

Beat up the hamas, not the civilians. There is no reason for instance to murder civilians at food delivery, UN had been doing it for decades without killing starving civilians every day.
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