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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#451

Post by metadat »

absurdo wrote: post #445

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What should or can we do about it? The US government is not representing the will of its citizens. Contacting my legislative representative isn't likely to accomplish anything to influence Trump continuing to directly facilitate and support genocide and other war crimes.

I also still need to work almost every day to pay the bills and care for my family, otherwise I'd be happy to go camp out and peacefully protest in support of change on the daily. What's the best option for the majority who share my situation? Because I do care a lot, and feel stuck.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#452

Post by kennywinker »

cmilton wrote: post #426
Newtonip wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes…

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There were hundreds of Palestinians held by the IDF without charges on Oct 6th. What’s another word for “held without charges”? Yes it’s hostage.

There were 3 days of idf bombing in gaza in september 2023.

Bringing up “hostages” as a reason for anything is a lie, a distortion, and a laundering of genocide.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#453

Post by Sporktacular »

perlgeek wrote: post #79
ahartmetz wrote: post #26

Why though, what does it achieve? Do they want to make sure that there will be terrorists / freedom fighters in the future so that they have a reason not to negotiate? Because they expect to "win" if violence continues?

From Israel's perspective, Palestinians are a problem. Long term, they have a few options: 1) Give them their own state. This is difficult for quite many reasons, and Israel (by which I mean the current government) doesn't want that 2) Give them full citizenship rights equal to Israel's citizens, make sure they have a proper minority representation, and let them participate in the regular political processes. The cur…

Perhaps it shouldn't be up to Israel to decide the future of non-citizens then.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#454

Post by Ray20 »

cropcirclbureau wrote: post #296
yoavm wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the Muslim world has gained quite some political power in the West, perhaps as a simple result of immigration. The EU for example seem to have about 50 times more Muslims than Jews. Anti-terrorism rhetorics has indeed previously led to terrible crimes, but I wouldn't suppose that's a reason to support pro-terrorism rhetorics. It's probably best to look at the content instead of the type of rhetoric…

You're not making sense my friend. The recent Muslim immigrants have nothing to do with soft power and I don't see how that's relevant to this context. Are you saying that it counters the influence that Israel has? And if we're talking about terrorism, IDF and Mossad are very much known to deploy terror tactics across a lot of their historical engagements. The definition of the word doesn't hinge on designation by a…

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#455

Post by throwaway290 »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #300
wakeupcaller wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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what about the last two years of video evidence of all the other war crimes? The bodies of burnt children. The reports of doctors who document multiple sniper rounds found in the bodies of small children and toddlers? I've been seeing reports about internet connectivity being very touch and go in Gaza the last few weeks. Is it not unreasonable to think, those who are starving the most might not have internet/electric…

jsyk many cases of evidence turned out to be propaganda and instead was showing Syria (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231229-war-of-narrat... and Bellingcat looked into it as well)

Some of it may be real but you really need to pay attention about who posted it originally, who reposted it etc, even people you wouldn't expect sometimes retweeted recycled Syrian footage...

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#456

Post by justin66 »

mrcwinn wrote: post #364
the__alchemist wrote: post #218

Some context first so my opinion isn't misconstrued as as leftist stereotype. This is within context of the behavior described in the article. - I'm a Jew in USA, and served in the military for more than a decade. - I used to get annoyed by the Palestinian protests I'd see in the years before this, and generally sided with Israel, and the operations its military performed in counter-Shia-militia operations etc in the…

I love the Jewish community, so I don’t say this lightly, but I view Netanyahu actions as somewhat resembling Nazi Germany in one respect (though certainly not others). He may not believe Israeli Jews have a birthright to the whole world (rather they are trying to strengthen one nation’s borders), but there is no doubt in my mind they are indiscriminately cleansing a people out of existence. That is their aim, beyond…

> Israel in another 10 years might not be recognizable.

The strange thing is, this statement held true before October 7th. Hopefully not everyone has forgotten that there were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets before the war, protesting what Netanyahu was doing to the Israeli government.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#457

Post by beardedwizard »

alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? This comment strikes me as wild considering the exact same thing is playing out in America right now, and a bunch of people are making up their minds about "Americans" and what they stand for.

The same has been true for Iran, only up until now (and probably still) we have always had a more nuanced discussion - its the Iranian government, not the people of Iran.

Come on, the government of many countries does not necessarily represent the people.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#458

Post by therealdrag0 »

mpweiher wrote: post #320
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Is there a reason to disbelieve the soldiers’ testimony?

There is plenty of reason to disbelieve the testimony was reported accurately. Haaretz’s English edition claims that IDF soldiers were ordered to fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza, but the original Hebrew version? It states they were told to fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites. This represents a significant difference in intent, legality, and moral implications https://mrandre…

Who cares about the word used in that sentence. They also said they killed people every day by doing this. How is that explained away?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#459

Post by Capricorn2481 »

implements wrote: post #384
dang wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you and I agree that there are topics which conventional politeness cannot respond to adequately, and that this is one of those topics. If you take those words "kind" and "curious" in a large sense—larger than usual—I think there's enough room there to talk about even this topic without breaking the guidelines. How to do this? That is something we have to work out together. You're right that it's difficult. Fr…

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I'm mostly just seeing people discuss what Israel's military is doing, with people on both sides adding historical context. It's sure as hell not a "hate-fest."

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#460

Post by arp242 »

breppp wrote: post #441
arp242 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that e.g. Māori or native Americans and whatnot are full citizens with full rights. The "founded on ethnic cleansing" is not the most important bit from the previous post. It's the "ethnic cleansing and denial of rights has continued ever since" that's the most important bit.

No, the difference is that the native population of western countries very much disappeared, because this was an actual genocide their percent of population is now negligible. While the Palestinian population in Israel proper is around 25% with full rights, while those under the control of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have rights in their respective political entity. Again there are other examples of countries…

> the native population of western countries very much disappeared

That's simply not true. It's very obviously not true. Are you denying that Māoris and Native Americans exist today? I cannot phantom why you would say such obvious nonsense.

I no longer believe you are engaging in good faith. Good day.

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