Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#981

Post by low_tech_love »

Imagine having no competition one day and the next DeepSeek happens. It must’ve been quite scary. Makes sense that accusations will start flying. In my country we have a saying: a thief that robs a thief is pardoned for 100 years.

It’s really interesting that the same people who defend liberal capitalism at its extreme and praise competition as its most important component (which I don’t disagree) are the same ones that’ll promptly attempt to destroy the system and the competition as soon as they are in such a position.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#982

Post by sabhiram »

The grapes are sour because their moat is crumbling.

What was supposed to be a model, training, and data moat - is now reduced to operational cost, which they are not terribly efficient for.

OpenAI has been on a journey to burn as much $ as possible to get as far ahead on those three moats, to the point where decreasing TCO for them on inference was not even relevant - "who cares if you save me 20% of costs when I can raise on a 150b pre money value?".

Well, with their moats disappearing, they will have no choice but to compete on inference cost like everyone else.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#983

Post by motoxpro »

pizzathyme wrote: post #720
Imnimo wrote: post #320

I think there's two different things going on here: "DeepSeek trained on our outputs and that's not fair because those outputs are ours, and you shouldn't take other peoples' data!" This is obviously extremely silly, because that's exactly how OpenAI got all of its training data in the first place - by scraping other peoples' data off the internet. "DeepSeek trained on our outputs, and so their claims of replicating…

This is a fascinating development because AI models may turn out to be like pharmaceuticals. The first pill costs $500 million to make, the second one costs pennies.

What a nice analogy.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#984

Post by throwaway314155 »

oli5679 wrote: post #957

this is pretty ridiculous A. below is a list of OpenAI initial hires from Google. It's implausible to me that there wasn't quite significant transfer of Google IP B. google published extensively, including the famous 'attention is all you need' paper, but open-ai despite its name, has not explained the breakthroughs that enabled O1. It has also switched from a charity to a for-profit company. C. Now this company, wit…

> A. below is a list of OpenAI initial hires from Google. It's implausible to me that there wasn't quite significant transfer of Google IP

I agree there's hypocrisy but in terms of making a strong argument, you can safely remove your list of persons who (drum roll)... mostly _didn't_ actually work at Google?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#985

Post by jajko »

jeanlucas wrote: post #931
jajko wrote: post #926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it makes sense to look at some previous PR statements of Altman et al re this when there a tens of billions floating around and egos get inflated to moon sizes. Farts in the wind have more weight, but this goes for all corporate PR. Thieves yelling 'stop those thieves' scenario to me, they just were first and would not like losing that position. But its all about money and consequently power, business a…

But it makes sense to expose their blatantly lies whenever possible to diminish the credibility they are trying to build while accusing others of the same they did

Oh yes I agree with all of you that lies should be exposed, also who lies like that once will lie again, 0 doubt there.

Just don't set the expectations bar too high to start with is all I am saying. Folks that get so high up money and power wise aren't nice people, period. Even if nice normal guy without any sociopathic traits would suddenly shoot so high, the environment and pressures would deform them pretty quickly.

Also, I would consider only some leaked private conversations with close people as representative truth, not some PR statements carefully crafted by team of experts.

Happy to be proven wrong, still waiting for an example #1 to give me some hope.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#988

Post by elzbardico »

I used OpenAI APIs to generate training data for some run-of-the-mill ML models at my work, for some use cases where people wanted to use LLMs directly, but that could be easily fulfilled by smaller well trained models.

Is OpenAI going to complain about me too?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#989

Post by elzbardico »

China is a society mostly run by engineers, some 70% of the CCP Politburo are STEM people by their formation. Engineering is a high prestige profession.

The West is run by lawyers, MBAs and salesmen.

This kerfuffle is a delicious study about this.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#990

Post by elzbardico »

Keyframe wrote: post #114
jasoneckert wrote: post #20

What I find the most comical about this is that the whole situation could be loosely summarized as "OpenAI is losing its job to AI."

also, China doing in IP what it's better at and way more experienced than USA - stealing.

We stole a lot of scientists and equipment from Germany after WW2. That's a big part of how we get to the moon.
Post reply on HN