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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#981

Post by throwawaylinux »

HWR_14 wrote: post #977
throwawaylinux wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think Putin is going to stop after Ukraine - he may temporarily stop to rebuild and plan the next war, So far they seem to have occupied heavily pro-Russian areas very close to home that have not put up much resistance. I don't think that's a good indication they would just keep going further. Possibly though. > but my belief is he will keep salami slicing until war is joined because he crosses some line th…

> hey seem to have occupied heavily pro-Russian areas very close to home that have not put up much resistance. I don't think that's a good indication they would just keep going further. Since you wrote your comment, Putin has starting acting bellicose to Finland. No where near attacking - yet. But it certainly doesn't make "he's only going to nip a little and then stop forever" seem likely.

Does Finland have a lot of pro-Russian separatist areas on the borders? I would certainly be concerned about a Russian invasion if that's the case.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#982

Post by MertsA »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #210
charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

I think they seized it because they need the general area to move their troops. In that case they can't tolerate Ukrainian troops there, but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material. I'm totally condemning the Russian actions, but in this particular case they may be acting somewhat responsibly. Unlike with the bombing o…

>no terrorists make off with radioactive material.

The reactors that aren't infamous have already had all fuel removed. The one that was scattered all over the countryside has plenty of highly radioactive debris but you can't realistically pull out material for a dirty bomb. Terrorists would have better luck stealing cobalt 60 sources and spreading that through a city than trying to break into the new safe confinement, break into the sarcophagus, find a suitably large amount of highly radioactive material, somehow break it into pieces and truck it out of the area, etc.

Terrorists aren't going to try to use the war as cover to sneak into Chernobyl regardless of Russian troop presence.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#984

Post by dghughes »

dghughes wrote: post #520
chewz wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Russian general is born with the ambition of driving his tanks to the Atlantic Ocean. And that won't be much different from what Tsar Alexander did in 1812/1813 with similiar meager resources. So yes, Putin probably is considering this scenario at least in his wet dreams... And it seems like largest country in Europe (by area), with 200 thousand strong army, tons od most sophisticated NATO weapons and 8 years o…

>Every Russian general is born with the ambition of driving his tanks to the Atlantic Ocean. France may not like that. They're not in NATO. But they have nuclear weapons.

Yeah I see now France is back. I know they were a founding member of NATO I'm not doubting that. But they left in the 1960s...sort of, but were in sort of but separate, then back in for sure in 2009.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#985

Post by w0de0 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #966
w0de0 wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chernobyl to me personally just represents the corruption and total failure of communism Thank you for sharing this. It gives some weight and reality to what I claimed above: 'in the Slavic societies of post-Soviet eastern Europe - including Russians themselves - Chernobyl connotes the corruption and failure of the USSR.' I really cannot comprehend all the outrage at putin, when all the outraged countries literally h…

You are aware that after WW2, there were many wars, from korea and vietnam, to more recent ones, form iraq I&II, afghanistan, syria, libya etc.? If you forget about the balkan wars in the 1990s (because those were our, "internal" wars), the only other war here was the nato bombing of serbia (when i was born, we were still one country, yugoslavia), so the last outside agression in our places was caused by nato, ie. mo…

You may choose to believe that America's empire, its history, and its reasons for existing, are identical with Putin and Russia's reasons, means, and goal in this war.

If you believe this - if you believe all morality is so relative - I recommend you move to Russia and take your despotism pure, without the base alloy of hypocrisy that seems to frustrate you so much.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#986

Post by w0de0 »

calsy wrote: post #938
unclebucknasty wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russian propaganda of the past ~decade has become extremely skilled at sounding reasonable to contrarian thinkers, and at fitting in to the broader Western zeitgeist. RT, less official media - perhaps the FSB itself - now cultivate native intellectuals To some extent it has, but seems to be targeted to a very specific profile. > In any case, I find this more likely than a secret American underground of RIA Novosti…

Before you let your imagination run wild, how about you do some basic research, like looking at my history. It's not pretty, but to think I'm some propagandist working with Russia is laughable and just demonstrates the point I made. A comment which I deleted because in these absurd times you need to be lock step with the current narrative or be branded a propagandist, conspiracy theorist or traitor. It's pointless tr…

I haven't the least idea what your OP comment was, and was not speaking to it. I do hope you weren't arguing Russia's war is just, or America should let the nukes fly, or some similar poison!

I was simply responding to your interlocutor because I wanted to share a ramble in response to his comment. I am sorry to have offended.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#987

Post by w0de0 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #966
w0de0 wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chernobyl to me personally just represents the corruption and total failure of communism Thank you for sharing this. It gives some weight and reality to what I claimed above: 'in the Slavic societies of post-Soviet eastern Europe - including Russians themselves - Chernobyl connotes the corruption and failure of the USSR.' I really cannot comprehend all the outrage at putin, when all the outraged countries literally h…

You are aware that after WW2, there were many wars, from korea and vietnam, to more recent ones, form iraq I&II, afghanistan, syria, libya etc.? If you forget about the balkan wars in the 1990s (because those were our, "internal" wars), the only other war here was the nato bombing of serbia (when i was born, we were still one country, yugoslavia), so the last outside agression in our places was caused by nato, ie. mo…

> you forget about the balkan wars in the 1990s

I mentioned no wars specifically, and so could have forgotten none.

Specifically in this war, in the Balkans:

Which territories did America conquer and annex?

Who, specifically, did Nato defeat? What were they doing, and planning?

Would you democracy exist if not for the West's intervention? Would your nation? Your people?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#988

Post by gpm »

dekhn wrote: post #948
gpm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're overestimating the speed of the attack. Even if the Ukrainians put up no resistance (and they have been putting up resistance) - tanks just don't move that fast/ukraine is a big place. See the dotted lines in this map - that's a rough estimate of how far the Russians have made it in a day. Even if they continue at the same pace overnight (unlikely), and the next day, and the next night, there's still a lot of…

Troops entered kyiv, some 19 hours after you made your statement.

Should be ~35 hours after my claim now, the "overnight, next day, and next night" mentioned has now passed.

It appears that heavy tanks have yet to even reach kyiv. Lighter vehicles and paratroopers have, but failed to seize the city overnight. The vast majority of Ukraine remains unoccupied, the takeover attempt is far from over like you claimed it would be.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#989

Post by pedrosorio »

paganel wrote: post #901
trymas wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK like in Latvia - these people (mostly russians) had (and still have) 3 choices: go back to russia, apply for citizenship or be left as "non-citizen". If after ~30 years after break-up of USSR you have not gone back to russia (because quality of life in Estonia or Latvia is probably better), or have not learned the language or do not want to pledge loyalty to the country - then such person is a problem to itself…

> then such person is a problem to itself. No, that is a statement that I consider false. I do personally live in a country that has a sizeable ethnic minority (Hungarians/Szekely, depending on the particular region of the country where they live [1]), and many of them do not know the local/national language, which is Romanian. Many of my fellow citizens regard that as almost blasphemy, I (and the law itself) actuall…

Perhaps the difference is that the historical relationship, and power differential, between Romania and Hungary is not exactly the same as the one between the Baltic States and Russia.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#990

Post by dekhn »

dekhn wrote: post #99
gpm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're overestimating the speed of the attack. Even if the Ukrainians put up no resistance (and they have been putting up resistance) - tanks just don't move that fast/ukraine is a big place. See the dotted lines in this map - that's a rough estimate of how far the Russians have made it in a day. Even if they continue at the same pace overnight (unlikely), and the next day, and the next night, there's still a lot of…

Since they're already shelling Kyiv, they obviously have more options than tanks to take ownership of the governmental apparatus. I can't see how Ukraine can put up any realistic defence given they now have no radar tracking or air support. If your point is "it takes tanks a few days to get to Kyiv", then, yes, that is technically correct. If your point is "Russia needs to invade the whole country", no. They own the…

Update: I was totally wrong!
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