Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#981

Post by nobody9999 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #94

glial wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> publicizes the ones FB most agrees with Change this to > publicizes the ones expected to make FB the most money and I agree with you. Either way, they should not be an arbiter of public discourse.

> Either way, they should not be an arbiter of public discourse. They can be, but they should lose their platform status and be treated as a publisher, ie. take full responsibility for content on their pages. You can't have both.

>They can be, but they should lose their platform status and be treated as a publisher, ie. take full responsibility for content on their pages. You can't have both.

I'm sorry. Would you expand on that? I don't understand what you're advocating. Perhaps this[0] might help you to formulate your response?

[0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello...

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#982

Post by wincy » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

thotsBgone wrote: post #867

wincy wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people running Facebook don’t live in Spain, that’s 100% why.

Spanish/latin culture also doesn't have the whole politically correct thing that we do.

I heard a reporter on NPR actually say the word "latinx" the other day, threw me for quite the loop.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#983

Post by nobody9999 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #179

rasengan wrote: post #23

Facebook is not a platform to have a voice. It’s a platform that harvests thoughts and publicizes the ones FB most agrees with while censoring those it does not. This is a slippery slope and, quite frankly, it’s the people that lose.

So while the Capitol is very symbolic, there wasn’t looting, rioting or major vandalism on the part of the protesters (compare to the “Autonomous Zone” and police precinct burning in Seattle. Does that mean in the future demonstrations and protests that could potentially end up in violence like that be suppressed by Facebook and Twitter? Or can we expect partisanship and see them bless other protests that turn to vio…

>So while the Capitol is very symbolic, there wasn’t looting, rioting or major vandalism on the part of the protesters (compare to the “Autonomous Zone” and police precinct burning in Seattle.

Five people are dead.

Dozens are injured, several severely.

A number of those taken into custody were found with molotov cocktails, police-style plastic restraints, pipes, clubs and firearms.

What do you think they were going to do with those molotov cocktails? Drink them?

Or the restraints?

Don't minimize what happened or compare it to other bad acts.

I don't know of any public official (except President Trump) who encouraged or condoned violence of any kind.

Facts matter.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#984

Post by sagichmal » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

pnt12 wrote: post #973

sagichmal wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine that morality is subjective. Objectivity isn't a requirement for ethical action -- I don't need to write a formal proof to ban a white ethnostate nationalist from my web forum.

Slavoj Žižek, a popular philosopher, has stated in an interview, which I will try to paraphrase: "some morals should be absolute. I don't want to live in a country where we would need to argue if a rape case is justified or not. We should reach consensus on some issues and treat them as absolute. " https://youtu.be/xN2ZGSX0cIE 36m30s

And I agree with that framing, too.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#985

Post by nobody9999 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #304

dleslie wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occupying the washington monument is symbolic. Invading the capitol building to stop the electoral count and intimidate congress into overturning the election results is not symbolic.

What did you think of the Kavanaugh protestors who invaded the Capitol building to stop his confirmation? https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/408169-police-arrest-128...

From your link:

"Demonstrators wore shirts that said "Believe Women" and "Be A Hero" in support of Christine Blasey Ford and Deborah Ramirez, who have each accused Kavanaugh of separate incidents of sexual assault. Kavanaugh has strongly denied the allegations."

How many offices did they trash? How many people died? How many injured? How many had pipes, clubs or guns? How many had molotov cocktails?

That'd be zero on all counts.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#986

Post by afiori » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

oooooooooooow wrote: post #841

marcus_holmes wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter has a really high membership ratio in journalism and politics - pretty much every professional journalist and politician is very active. Whether this is a good thing for society is a different question. (I'd argue that it's not and that Twitter should be closed down. But I know that's an unpopular opinion)

I reckon it's not as unpopular as you might think.

Twitter is very popular among influential people

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#987

Post by therein » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

magsnus wrote: post #774

Normally I would be against this kind of "arbitrarily corporate censorship" and think people should be able to have a voice as long as they aren't convicted for breaking any laws. But in this case it seems pretty warranted.

Basically you have no true principles and will bend your values according to what you deem right and wrong.

Which is a slippery slope because if you knew you were wrong, you wouldn't be in a certain opinion and if you are so sure you are right, to the point you don't think the other side has anything valid to stand on, you probably shouldn't be trusted with decisions of this kind that impact people that may not be exactly like you.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#988

Post by molbioguy » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

pnt12 wrote: post #973

sagichmal wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine that morality is subjective. Objectivity isn't a requirement for ethical action -- I don't need to write a formal proof to ban a white ethnostate nationalist from my web forum.

Slavoj Žižek, a popular philosopher, has stated in an interview, which I will try to paraphrase: "some morals should be absolute. I don't want to live in a country where we would need to argue if a rape case is justified or not. We should reach consensus on some issues and treat them as absolute. " https://youtu.be/xN2ZGSX0cIE 36m30s

I don't disagree. But to me, that concensus is embodied in laws. Morals are still relative, not absolute, though they may be widely shared.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#989

Post by tanseydavid » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #881

marcosdumay wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death of the press¹ has been an worldwide phenomenon, so attributing it to a single US legislative bill is a bit too reductionist. It's quite possible that there was US protagonism on that process, and it's quite possible that the bill was a relevant factor, but the bill doesn't have an worldwide impact, and the US influence does certainly not come from it. 1 - It looks quite dead by now, nearly everything we cal…

Regardless - giving every single person, no matter what their accomplishments or talents, the same voice online, without anything out there filtering the garbage, was a really, REALLY bad move. Unfiltered social media is an amplifier for bullshit. Truth, reason, a good analysis - they're all hard. Spewing out nonsensical mythology is easy. Something needs to change.

I am struggling putting it into words, but I have to say I am deeply troubled by the widespread behavior of adults second-guessing the ability of other adults to make distinctions between between competing pieces of information.

It seems to me that this reaction of "we must regulate what is said so that nothing false is ever said (because someone might believe it and even worse might repeat it)" has devolved into "we must regulate what is said because someone might be led to believe something different from what I believe."

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#990

Post by tanseydavid » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

yeetman21 wrote: post #914

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless - giving every single person, no matter what their accomplishments or talents, the same voice online, without anything out there filtering the garbage, was a really, REALLY bad move. Unfiltered social media is an amplifier for bullshit. Truth, reason, a good analysis - they're all hard. Spewing out nonsensical mythology is easy. Something needs to change.

Regardless - giving every single person, no matter what their accomplishments or talents, the same ability to vote, without anything out there filtering the garbage, was a really, REALLY bad move. Unfiltered universal suffrage is an amplifier for bullshit. Truth, reason, a good analysis - they're all hard. Spewing out nonsensical mythology is easy. Something needs to change.

Thank you for this -- I hope that the point (that I think) you are making is not lost in the large thread.