this thread is a perfect example of why we are so fucked
Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
981–990 of 1001 posts
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#982Earlier quoted context omitted.
US didn't have a federal strategy to deal with the pandemic. They shot at their own foot and didn't give themselves a chance to be successful. The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm watching Champions league finals on TV and Wuhan pool party clips on twitter, thinking wtf went wrong here.
>>US didn't have a federal strategy They did at the outset of the current administration but chose to fire the people trained for 'reasons'. When the pandemic finally pressed on the country, the game plan handed down from the previous admin had been abandoned for years at that point by the current administration.
"Why should American taxpayers throw good money at pandemic planning when they only happen about once every hundred years in the US? The last one was what, almost exactly a hundred years ago, what are the odds it would happen during this administration?"
The logic remains breathtaking, and the irony would be delicious if it weren't so deadly.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#983Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we need to sacrifice some of the more trivial things The "more trivial things" like normal social interaction, employment, and healthy exercise? I've never seen a more pointed example of most people's abject inability to perform utilitarian reasoning than this pandemic. If you think causing at least tens of thousands of suicides since the start of the lockdowns, impoverishing millions of people for years to come, a…
Wow. I think you're political leanings have beaten out utilitarian reasoning. 10k suicides We certainly have the money to support millions of people losing payroll, but stimulus payments to give people room to properly isolate are a bargaining chip. Quality of life in a crisis??? Are you kidding me? How far from the "Greatest Generation" can you get when you can't ask people to wear a mask and skip the gym for a whil…
> 10k suicides If you think an 85 year old dying 3 months earlier is the same as a 27 year old killing themselves, you’re beyond help.
> Again, wow. I'm sorry you hate your gramma... You're the one that's not rational, and I expected the HN crowd to be better at digesting statistics.
Absolutely moronic emotional appeals and accusations of being irrational within a few sentences of each other? You are a hopeless midwit.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#984Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we need to sacrifice some of the more trivial things The "more trivial things" like normal social interaction, employment, and healthy exercise? I've never seen a more pointed example of most people's abject inability to perform utilitarian reasoning than this pandemic. If you think causing at least tens of thousands of suicides since the start of the lockdowns, impoverishing millions of people for years to come, a…
> I've never seen a more pointed example of most people's abject inability to perform utilitarian reasoning than this pandemic. Yep, me neither. If more people could, we wouldn't have this problem, because people who could would stay home . And going to the gym is indeed one of the "more trivial things". I suppose the problem is that it's hard to impress on people the seriousness of the situation. If instead of a vir…
I’ve done the risk analysis of the health effects of the virus on myself and people I care about and decided that the negligible marginal increase in risk of death or serious injury is not even close to sufficient to justify becoming a shut-in.
If a single-basis-point-scale increase in annual death rates is enough to make you “stay home”, you should never go outside in the first place.
On expectation, my marginal increase in risk of death from depression from becoming a shut-in is higher than the marginal increase in risk of death from contracting covid.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#985Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. > people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) This makes it clear "nobody successfully proved" really means "I didn't bother to listen". The messaging on masks has long been "they reduce transmission by infected people", not "t…
The argument isn't about whether masks do or do not work (they do). The argument is about whether or not it makes sense to shut down the entire economy when only the very sick, very old, or very obese are really at serious risk. The obvious solution is: If you are at risk, or worried about COVID, don't leave your house. To everyone else: wear a mask, stay away from people, follow the precautions...but go do what you…
Somehow other first world countries manage to keep infection rates under control and not completely kill the economy. Maybe they are super lucky and we are very unlucky or maybe they have better leadership?
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#986Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can't you do calisthenics ? There's a ton of possible exercise which uses only your body weight, or only minimal equipment like a pull-up bar. Can you do a one-legged squat? Pushup with a hand stand? Dragon flag? Many other exercises on youtube which make you sweat in minutes.
Body weight exercises can be great and useful in maintaining a certain level of fitness, but you're very limited in the ability to increase your muscle mass using them.
I see. Here our opinions diverge, because I believe muscle mass is not valuable by itself. I prefer to have a more athletic looking, performant body.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#987Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lives are at stake here, so the "Stay the fuck home" crowd, as you put it, has a right to express feelings that may be stronger than "educational and pleading."
Lives are at stake for every single large scale event or decision. McDonalds changing the price of their fries, in either direction, has lives at stake. If you can't calmly and dispassionately discuss "lives at stake" situations you have no business in any conversation of importance.
Interestingly. Many have been clamly and dispassionately discussing a "lives at stake" situation called Climate Change and there hasn't been much meaningful action.
Also, i find this rebuttal interesting. Why do humans have to be dispassionate? We are humans. Getting rid of the passion really seems dehumanising.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#988Where I live gyms have been open for some time. There's been no outbreaks at fitness facilities thus far in my state. I have friends in various countries in Europe who also lift regularly and their fitness facilities have been open for months with no issues. As always, a dose of perspective is necessary.
Did you read the article? It stated that the "underground" gyms had people close together without wearing masks. (This can be understood to be due to prohibition, of course.) Is that the case with the fitness centers in your state?
It's definitely the case in my gym, which has been open for 3 months now. It's unavoidable that people get close to each other without a mask in a gym. No one is going to give a shit because the equipment is shared anyway.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#989Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we need to sacrifice some of the more trivial things The "more trivial things" like normal social interaction, employment, and healthy exercise? I've never seen a more pointed example of most people's abject inability to perform utilitarian reasoning than this pandemic. If you think causing at least tens of thousands of suicides since the start of the lockdowns, impoverishing millions of people for years to come, a…
Where are you getting your data about suicides? My impression is that an increase of tens of thousands is quite an overstatement. See https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/health/pandemic-coronavir...
Based strictly on estimated unemployment/suicide causal relationship. Actual numbers are probably higher than I've estimated due to depression caused by non-unemployment factors like social isolation. As I understand, this comports with the recent rise in e.g. opiate deaths.
Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition
#990Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Europe can relax because they worked hard in the beginning to get everything under control. Where do you see that COVID19 is over? > under control A very steep second wave of infection is, to me, the opposite of "under control". Do you actually check data? https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/fr Also, just routinely mentioning: "No country knows the total number of people infected with COVID-19. All we know…
I'm curious about the death rates in the European countries on your WHO link; both France and Spain have clear resurgence in cases but very near zero deaths. Did they actually reduce the morbidity by 100x, or is there some other fundamental difference?
> both France and Spain have clear resurgence in cases but very near zero deaths.
We are getting better at treating COVID19. We are not as clueless as 6 months ago.