A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
Freedom of movement is an ideal to aspire to, but maybe the reality we live in now is that immigration needs to be managed to maintain social cohesion. People need time to stop thinking of themselves as British or German first but rather European. Eastern European countries need time to develop. The Eurozone needs time to stabilize. Eventually I think the EU will get there, but maybe for now, the survival of the Euro…
UK votes to leave EU
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Re: UK votes to leave EU
#982Re: UK votes to leave EU
#983> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11967833 and marked it off-topic.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#984Re: UK votes to leave EU
#985If this is followed by a Trump win in the US, it will mark the biggest change in mature men's hair style of recent times.
I dont even know where to store all the popcorn i will need in the next weeks and years. I am so excited that finally something happens again, especially as both things may lead to chaos and therefore real changes.
"Okay guys, just one last world war, then we'll really make some progress"
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#986As the enormity of the situation sets in, Britain must reflect on her status. Yet as currency and foreign investment alike tick into the ether, we cannot afford leisurely introspection. Commentators alight to social media, fast food opinions winding through the networks to be forwarded, appraised, accosted, and forgotten.
A stunned middle rouse from their silence, incredulity reigning. Someone must be blamed, and there are no shortage of targets. The deceitful far right must surely be deposed, their 350 million untruths a week publicly unravelled at the teeth of the media. Tautological slogans, much as we must surely want to “Make Britain British again” wear thin, amid claims of xenophobia being noncommittally dismissed, and swiftly, lest anyone ponder too long at their origin.
The leave campaign celebrate an ethereal success, yet no definition of success appears. Nor was one provided - a marginal result in a referendum which declined to assert a majority, or to be legislatively bound to parliamentary action, leaves dangerous room for interpretation, yet as a consequence manages to leave none at all.
The glaring omission makes one thing clear - there is no plan - for who can plan for what cannot be defined? The stage show props of austerity budgets are shuffled back under coats amid sheepish mutterings of “ah, well, before the vote, you see…”. The idea of success of this referendum was to do not with the outcome, but with its existence. A scrap, thrown far to the right in exchange for a grubby four years, has swiftly been devoured, and the leader finds his four years have, overnight, been devalued to two.
Exposed to his short sell on the exchange rate of democracy to political capital, he has built an unflattering legacy. The leader who failed to lead, and the alumnus who handed the keys to the counterfeit every-men riding a wave of anti-intellectualism, has gambled one time too many and must bear the greatest loss of his era. Not only has the sea between Britain and the world become rougher than ever, but the political dice are cast, and as they tumble to a halt, the shape of the United Kingdom itself now rests on how they lie.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#987Re: UK votes to leave EU
#988I think this should be a wake up call for those of us who are American. Populist movements that rely heavily on anger, fear, and anti-immigration rhetoric can still be effective in western democracies even if a large majority of experts think it shouldn't and won't happen. This is the first time I have legitimately thought we might end up with a Trump presidency.
Facepalm.
We had this whole World War thing, which is endlessly replayed in TV and movies from your country. How did you miss the moral of the whole story?
Germany was one of the wealthiest industrialized nations. It was a top education destination worldwide, with some of the best universities in the world. The lesson of National Socialism is "if it could happen here, it can happen ANYWHERE".
I don't think that trump is a Hitler. But the emotions and rhetoric that he uses is extremely dangerous stuff. And your media just eats it up. You guys arent just playing with fire; you're playing with TNT.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#989My question as an ignorant American is does this mean other countries might also leave and how many can leave before it collapses?
Dutch far right politician Geert Wilders tweeted it was time for a Dutch referendum on EU membership. Front National leader Marine Le Pen wants a French referendum on EU membership. Italy's Five Star Movement wants an Italian referendum...
So yeah, various populist political parties are now using it to try and get their own 'Brexit' equivalent for their countries. It's not that serious yet (since hey, these parties aren't in power in these regions), but you can bet that if a far right or populist group gets control of an EU country now, they'll try and copy what's going on in the UK.
As for how many can leave... depends more on what the countries are and how much of an economic effect they have. If France and Germany ever decide to leave, the EU is probably in trouble. If a small country/small countries leave, or one that's running at a loss at the moment (like say, Greece) does the same, then the EU can probably survive it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36614643...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-5-star-movement-calls-for...
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#990A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
> A very sad day for everyone in Europe. I don't know, I'm pretty glad myself. > The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. Only there is not much "growing together". Besides the bureaucracy there were certain large countries (and alliances) pissing all over smaller ones, in things from trade agreements to fiscal policies and other d…
Farange reported the moves between offices that occurred twice a month and the lavish EU spending on administration. Both noted there was no way for the people to vote down laws or vote out these bureaucrats.
Statist bureaucrats too often spend the people's money with little regard for return on investment. They are the brightest people in the room - just ask them. They don't face the same restraining force as the business owner whose customers can go elsewhere if they don't think they are getting value for their money. As the Brexit folks framed the issue, this was about being responsive to the people, giving them the ability to vote out the whole lot and get others who will be responsive to the people paying the bill.
We have the same problem here in the US. There really is little difference between the establishment Democrats and Republicans. All are big government types who focus on policies that benefit their big donors. They are spending us into oblivion and devaluing all our assets by flooding the economy with more printed fiat currency. Our unfunded future liabilities are even worse. We need to do our own house cleaning.
So I say "Happy Independence Day" to the folks in the UK and hope my neighbors are looking closely enough at our own situation and will will band together to do our own house cleaning this November.