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Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#971

Post by gerash »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #919
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any country, really; wars cannot be won anymore unless you exterminate its inhabitants completely. At best you can force a regime change, but as Afghanistan showed, that's fragile and tenuous at best if it's not fully backed by the population.

Afghanistan and Iran are not the same. Afghanistan is filled with people that don’t know the Earth is round. Iranians or Persians are educated and largely do not support this regime at all.

Doesn’t matter. Once bombs start hitting next to you, you rally around the flag

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#972

Post by gerash »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #775
fny wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big mistake was underestimating the appetite for rebellion despite 70%-80% wholesale opposition to the regime.[0] I personally know many, many Iranians who welcome the attacks along with their families. All of the high-profile assassinations involve intelligence from Iranians. However, no one has guns, and government-backed militias roam the streets to maintain order.[1] There is no possibility of military coup.…

> If anything, this war demonstrates the tyranny and tentacles of the modern state. The well seems forever poisoned once power is lost to despots. Didn’t we just see in Syria that’s not the case. It is supremely hard to nation build a large failing state no matter who’s attempting it. Having the guns to challenge the internal security forces seems like a necessary first step.

Syria project was to topple a secular Iran allied government with any other alternative which ended up being ISIS because Israel wanted it and they control the government, mainstream media and have passed laws at state and federal levels so you can’t even criticize them

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#973

Post by KellyCriterion »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #672
account42 wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point of having nukes - so others won't attack you.

Except that it's a bit more complicated than that. Russia has nukes and is under attack from Ukraine, and while in the past they sabre-rattled that they would use tactical nukes if there was ever any incursion, they haven't done so because they know that would cause the whole world to retaliate. Then there's nuclear defenses - if a country would have an effective anti-ICBM system (like Star Wars or whatever), it woul…

Eh, Russia is under attack by Ukraine?

In which universe is that? From mainland Europe, I have a different perspective who started to fight?

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#974

Post by andruby »

srean wrote: post #756
stein1946 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not an exaggeration to say that Cuba is flattened and invaded that same afternoon But it is, the US is no position to flatten anything. Afghanistan? Lost Vietnam? Lost Ukraine? Lost Iran? will be lost And these are heavily embargoed 3rd world countries. In the first days of the Israeli-US war in Iran (a country under decades of embargo by the way) the US, Israel and vassals lost 60+ planes (plus who knows what…

60+ planes !? Not disputing, just interested to learn more. It seems Iran offered little to no defense against bombing raids. This may have changed recently.

I can only find references to 16 US planes lost (0 Israeli planes)

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#975

Post by akimbostrawman »

dfedbeef wrote: post #811
jacquesm wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this does in the long run is set the stage for another 9/11.

Literally. The US is run by people who can't see past their fucking noses.

Correct but not in the way you think

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#976

Post by player1234 »

pedroma wrote: post #174
jacquesm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could learn from our allies in Ukraine. Should have worn a suit. The US is not an ally of Ukraine, it sees Ukraine as a nuisance that should have rolled over long ago but somehow refuses to and because the US still needs Europe for a bit longer (but maybe not that much longer) they're still playing ball as long as Europe pays (as it should, but that's besides the point). Allies come to each others aid, the US ha…

This sentiment is very popular in Europe. From the perspective of the American, it's like, help was offered for 90% of the time in the Ukraine conflict, then we took a break and suddenly we are more an enemy than China. From my point of view, the pushing away is not one-sided like Europeans like to portray, but has been mutual for awhile.

[dead]

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#977

Post by grvdrm »

pjmorris wrote: post #175
hn_throw2025 wrote: post #125

“during WWII, the US Navy… winning the U-boat war in the Atlantic” Sounds like typical US revisionist history. They developed ASDIC? HF/DF? Hedgehog? Even the depth charge? No, that was all the British. I would say technological development plus the Enigma decrypts were the biggest factor.

Yes. "When whole squadrons of very long-range aircraft were operating out of bases in the Shetlands, Northern Ireland, Iceland, Greenland, and Newfoundland (and, after mid-1943, the Azores), and when the Bay of Biscay could be patrolled all through the night by aircraft equipped with centimetric radar, Leigh Lights, depth charges, acoustic torpedoes, even rockets, Doenitz’s submarines knew no rest." [0] [0] Kennedy,…

Fascinating book. I think I finished it!

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#978

Post by NickC25 »

jalapenoj wrote: post #886
NickC25 wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what everyone misses. Bibi has been found guilty by his own court system of gross corruption. Bibi tried to neuter his country's court system as a result, which pissed off a lot of Israel's population. Everything from 10/7 onward has been done to encourage Israelis to rally 'round the flag and keep fighting the enemy. Bibi goes to jail if the perma-war stops. Bibi does not want to go to jail.

He can just move to the US and order the senate to take turns kissing his feet.

I live in SoFLA and have seen one of his kids around town a few times. The kid is 110% all-in on the "chosen people" mantra and seems to think everyone is beneath him. Miami Beach's jewish population loves him.

Ironically enough, I do business frequently with a secular Israeli dude who has introduced me into some of the circles he runs in (mainly other secular Israelis), and they all seem to despise Benjamin "Nutty-Yahoo" Mielekowski and his ilk.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#979

Post by seanmcdirmid »

asa400 wrote: post #438
Animats wrote: post #426

A big mistake here was simply underestimating the scale of Iran. Iran has 90,000,000 people. More than 2x Ukraine. More than 2x Germany. More than 2x Iraq. More than any country in Europe. About 2/3 of Russia. Expecting to win a war on the cheap was a fantasy. Especially since Iran has been fighting Israel for years. On the naval front, Ukraine sunk the Moskva with a few truck-mounted missiles. That finally made it u…

> Worst outcome is the US attacks Cuba, Cuba allies with Iran, it turns out that Cuba has been stocking up on Iranian drones, and Cuba becomes a forward base for drone and missile attacks on the southern US. If this happens and Cuba decides to launch drones/missiles against the US homeland, it's not an exaggeration to say that Cuba is flattened and invaded that same afternoon. After 9/11, there's no world in which an…

That’s MAD. It’s much more likely that we just blockade and invade Cuba than we nuke it. Even Trump isn’t crazy enough to start a nuclear war (I hope).

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#980

Post by fastasucan »

asa400 wrote: post #438
Animats wrote: post #426

A big mistake here was simply underestimating the scale of Iran. Iran has 90,000,000 people. More than 2x Ukraine. More than 2x Germany. More than 2x Iraq. More than any country in Europe. About 2/3 of Russia. Expecting to win a war on the cheap was a fantasy. Especially since Iran has been fighting Israel for years. On the naval front, Ukraine sunk the Moskva with a few truck-mounted missiles. That finally made it u…

> Worst outcome is the US attacks Cuba, Cuba allies with Iran, it turns out that Cuba has been stocking up on Iranian drones, and Cuba becomes a forward base for drone and missile attacks on the southern US. If this happens and Cuba decides to launch drones/missiles against the US homeland, it's not an exaggeration to say that Cuba is flattened and invaded that same afternoon. After 9/11, there's no world in which an…

So you are saying the US has no problems with killing civilians; women and children?
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