Whether this particular attempt is really the disconnect or not , it doesn’t matter. The train has left the station this time and they are going to replace the visa/mastercard duopoly. India and China proved it’s absolutely doable, the administration just pushed Europe down this path.
Switzerland and denmark have proven it is possible. An interesting challenge will be to see if these national systems can be integrated somehow. If so, problem solved.
Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
971–980 of 1001 posts
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#972Earlier quoted context omitted.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_... -- initiated by France and Britain, proving that NATO is not a "defensive military alliance" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia -- another offensive "humanitarian" action By withdrawing from NATO and pulling our military bases out of Europe, it becomes more difficult for the US to "intervene" in the Middle East at the pleasure o…
So here's the problem. Assuming what you said is correct, the US, UK, and France want NATO to be more than just a defensive organization. But what about other NATO members? They don't have as many interests to protect in Africa and the Middle East, but they need NATO to defend against Russia. So why should they care about competition between China and the US elsewhere? and you said China actively supplies war materia…
Furthermore, Europe has very little soft power in the US at this point. There's no region of the world I am less interested in helping. With every post I read from you guys, I understand more and more why my ancestors left that place. Think of it this way: We need to reallocate money away from our military, and towards our healthcare system which you guys are always making fun of. Does that help make my point clear?
As a user named raven12345 stated:
>Is there any doubt that a country that hasn't fought a war in decades is more popular than countries like the US and Russia, which are constantly at war?
We in the United States need to stop involving ourselves in so many wars. Plain and simple. You said it yourself.
>So why should they care about competition between China and the US elsewhere?
Where did I say that? I don't want the US to be competing with China. I'm an isolationist. I prefer a Swiss approach to foreign policy for the United States.
>That's why polls showed that China has higher approval than the US in Europe.
So we need to drop sanctions on Russia, like China has done, so that the Europeans will like us more?
"...companies — possibly with the tacit approval of customs authorities — have also engaged in classification fraud, concealing sensitive goods under misleading labels. In addition, some shipments are routed through third countries to disguise their final destination in Russia. By continuing to publish detailed customs data, Beijing openly signals its disregard for Western trade sanctions against Russia. But the data reveals only what China chooses to make visible — and it remains unclear what volume or categories of trade may lie beyond the published figures."
https://kinacentrum.se/en/publications/china-russia-trade-in...
"To help prevent a further deterioration of Russia’s economy and defense industrial base, Russia has leaned heavily on China. China-Russia trade reached nearly $250 billion in 2024, up from $190 billion in 2022.46 China has been Russia’s top trading partner since 2014, with its share of Russia’s foreign trade increasing from 11.3 percent in 2014 to 33.8 percent in 2024.47 In addition, Russia relies on oil exports to China, which now make up about 75 percent of China’s imports, compared to a pre-2022 average of between 60 and 65 percent.48
In the defense sector, China has significantly increased exports to Russia of “high-priority items,” a set of 50 dual-use goods that include computer chips, machine tools, radars, and sensors that Russia needs to sustain its war efforts.49 While Russia lacks the capacity to produce many of these goods in sufficient quantities, China’s massive manufacturing sector can produce a number of them at scale.50 Chinese exports helped Russia triple its production of Iskander-M ballistic missiles from 2023 to 2024, which Russia has used to pound Ukrainian cities.51 In addition, China accounted for 70 percent of Russia’s imports of ammonium perchlorate in 2024, an essential ingredient in ballistic missile fuel.52 China has also provided Russia with drone bodies, lithium batteries, and fiber-optic cables—the critical components for fiber-optic drones used in Ukraine, which can bypass electronic jamming.53"
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-grinding-war-ukraine
Contrast the $250 billion Russia/China bilateral trade figure, with the $146 million worth of drones which the Netherlands imported from China. Like comparing an apple to a grizzly bear.
$146 million is also fairly tiny compared with the $60 billion worth of weapons that Europe bought from the US over 2022-2024: https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2024/1...
When you buy weapons from the US, it's a worrisome dependence on an evil warmonger. When you buy weapons from China, it's "yay we are buddies with China now". See why I've had enough of your "friendship"?
For years, Europeans have sharply criticizing the United States for sometimes partnering with authoritarian countries. It's fascinating to see the rapidity of your reversal: how eager you now are to partner with China, an authoritarian country which happily trades with Russia. It goes to show that this "don't partner with authoritarian countries" stuff is just disingenuous virtue signalling.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#973Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not true. At least not in Sweden. There are different laws from credit cards and debit cards.
This is the law which regulates such things, and the law makes no difference between any payment service (ie credit or debit), when it comes to unauthorized use, see chapter 5: https://svenskforfattningssamling.se/sites/default/files/sfs... Edit: Page 28 to be precise. The law explicitly states that funds have to be reimbursed to the victim immediately or at latest on the same bank day.
https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-och-lagar/dokument/sven...
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#974Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh, I thought the EU had mandated for instant SEPA transfers to be free. Maybe it’s just national. What country are you in?
Of course there is no mandate to offer anything for free. They just need to be offered for the same price as other methods. But most people have a bank account for a fixed price and some even for free. So individual transfers are considered free, even if the correct term would be "already paid".
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#975Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Jacques BAUD and Xavier MOREAU, Swiss and French nationals respectively, were sanctioned by the EU along with a laundry list of Russian nationals, on the accusation of being russian mouthpieces (...) If this is the best example you can muster, you don't have much of a case. They are Russian nationals pushing propaganda for a totalitarian regime which has been engaging in wars of annexation throughout Europe and who…
>They are Russian nationals pushing propaganda for a totalitarian regime which has been engaging in wars of annexation throughout Europe and whose threats of nuclear war against Europe are pushed on almost on a daily basis. Where's the proof beyond reasonable doubt resulting from a trial, that those European citizens have done the things you say? Or is Euro News propaganda supposed to be the only proof on which EU ge…
And if they refuse to return to the EU for this trial? That means they could do whatever they want with no consequences?
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#976Earlier quoted context omitted.
>No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device What about being required to carry a your-own-government-controlled tracking device? Because the US or Chine government can't harm me in Europe via the data they collect from me, But the EU authorities can if they want to, so naturally I fear them more if they were the ones hoovering my data. What are the odds they're using this on-shore tech…
The odds are very low. It all depents on the people. So far, the European citizens are very privacy senstive. The European institutions are characterized by a huge devision of power. There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people. If people turn away from liberal democracy, that's another matter. But then everything is lost anyway.
Their reaction and opposition to ChatControl (or near complete lack of both) would indicate otherwise? They could hardly care less about privacy.
National governments which have openly declared that believe they have the right to unlimited access to any private communication hardly lost any popularity or faced real consequences.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#977Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#978Earlier quoted context omitted.
How dare Europe force card companies to distribute the cost of being poor on all customers. Cashback is effectively a special fee levied exclusively on those who don't qualify.
I was told the other day that the people most likely to choose to avoid the extra 2.5% fees are the wealthier. In New Zealand, most low margin business (like cafes) ask you to accept an ~2.5% transaction fee (if you use a credit card or paywave). You can avoid the fee by using a debit card with a chip. I'm unsure what choice the poorer make. If you're actually low income, maybe you don't go to cafes. I did notice tha…
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#979I'm surprised that Canada doesn't seem to be talking about doing this. We've already got a strong payment processing brand with Interac, it's used daily for millions of debit transactions, and supports all the features you'd expect (in Canada) from a payment card (tap, chip&pin). There's also the MasterCard Debit and Visa Debit branding which seem to bridge debit transactions to the MasterCard and Visa networks. And…
This would still rely on Visa/MasterCard allowing dual-branded credit cards for overseas transactions, which isn't a very common arrangement. The only market that has this is in Asia where there are UnionPay + Visa/MasterCard dual branded cards and I suspect that the reason they allow this is because the market is huge, especially compared to Canada. Also Interac does not do online transactions outside of some very s…
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#980Earlier quoted context omitted.
Growing up in the EU, living in North America now, it's mind blowing to me how much credit these companies are making available to me. Not that I ever would outside of an actual emergency but I can see how it's tempting to someone who didn't grow up in a financial risk averse society.
It's amazing. Meanwhile your fellow Europeans wouldn't trust to lend you their power drill for a weekend, even if you've known each other for 30 years. My European business banks have never offered any kind of line of credit. Of course they probably would if I needed, and went there to grovel and prostrate myself. In contrast, my American business bank just sends unprompted e-mails sometimes asking if I would like to…
> American trust is based on rationality and intuition
Just remind us where the 2008 subprime crisis started again?