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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#971

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

nailer wrote: post #898
fahhem wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how else would Gazans eat? UNRWA, WFP, etc. You know, the ones with decades of experience in Gaza and other war zones with sites, warehouses, and all the other infrastructure necessary to support a population under siege.

> UNRWA The one that has a unique definiton of 'refugee' that doesn't correspond with UNs the normal definition of the term? Where many of the staff work for Hamas? Where their schools teach children to be martyrs? The one many countries have halted funding for because of this? If you want the UN, fine, UNHCR, the normal UN refugee agency.

The Palestinian refugee problem is fairly unique in the modern world to begin with.

Israel is arguably the last colonial state to be founded, at a time when colonialism was on the way out. The Israelis expelled a massive number of people into the surrounding countries, and have since refused to allow the Palestinians to return to their homes, which are inside what is now Israel. The Palestinians naturally want to return home, and the neighboring countries do not want to provide for millions of refugees created by Israel, so the Palestinians are in permanent limbo.

The obvious solution would be for Israel to allow the Palestinians to return home, and to pay for their resettlement. But Israel refuses to do that, because the entire idea behind Israel is that the country must have a decisive Jewish majority.

As for your various accusations against UNRWA, they're just a rehash of the standard Israeli propaganda against the agency. The actual reason why Israel dislikes UNRWA is because the existence of Palestinian refugees is a problem for Israel.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#972

Post by nailer »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #971
nailer wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UNRWA The one that has a unique definiton of 'refugee' that doesn't correspond with UNs the normal definition of the term? Where many of the staff work for Hamas? Where their schools teach children to be martyrs? The one many countries have halted funding for because of this? If you want the UN, fine, UNHCR, the normal UN refugee agency.

The Palestinian refugee problem is fairly unique in the modern world to begin with. Israel is arguably the last colonial state to be founded, at a time when colonialism was on the way out. The Israelis expelled a massive number of people into the surrounding countries, and have since refused to allow the Palestinians to return to their homes, which are inside what is now Israel. The Palestinians naturally want to ret…

> The Israelis expelled a massive number of people into the surrounding countries, and have since refused to allow the Palestinians to return to their homes, which are inside what is now Israel.

A huge part of the Exodus was the Arab league telling Arabs to leave their homes in 1948 while they destroyed the new Jewish state, because they didn’t just want Jordan and the proposed second Arab state from British Palestine they wanted everything from the river to the sea, which probably would’ve destroyed all the jewish people (witness all the violence pre-1948 from Arabs to Jews). Meanwhile, contrary to arab nationalist claims, ben gurion asked Arabs to stay and peacefully join the new country which is why Israel is 20% Arab.

The other thing you’ve omitted is the greater number of Jews that were expelled from Arab states. you haven’t asked for them to be able to return either, but it’s probably not a good idea as they would be killed, as is typical for anybody who doesn’t follow or has left Islam in Arabic countries. Witness the current genocide against the druze people in Syria.

saying my points are a rehash of standard propaganda is silly: anyone can verify that we know UNRWA staff are members of hamas, that UNRWA facilities are routinely used by Hamas, that UNRWA schools teach children to desire to be martyrs and that UNRWA has a different definition of refugee than UNHCR. The very obvious solution is UNRWA should be disbanded.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#973

Post by nailer »

fahhem wrote: post #963
nailer wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UNRWA The one that has a unique definiton of 'refugee' that doesn't correspond with UNs the normal definition of the term? Where many of the staff work for Hamas? Where their schools teach children to be martyrs? The one many countries have halted funding for because of this? If you want the UN, fine, UNHCR, the normal UN refugee agency.

What percentage of their staff works for Hamas? What's the proof they work for Hamas? Israel has provided 0 proof, only allegations, and even then it's only a handful of people in an organization of tens of thousands. That's literally better than the ratio of rapist to citizen in Israel. Numbers for proof: Israel claims 12 out of 30k (13k in Gaza), but the UN says only 9 "may have been involved". That's 0.1% of Pales…

What do you mean by no proof? UNRWA has admitted that many of their staff members participated in Hamas attacks, they just dispute the amount. I’m sure you probably can guess it’s probably a large amount as the school systemically teach children to be martyrs - ie UNRWA openly supports terrorism - and you can easily confirm that for yourself.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#974

Post by achierius »

geysersam wrote: post #772
oezi wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we have learned again is that actions speak louder than words and that without action you can't achieve anything. Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. My takeaway is that the UN needs to be replaced with something without the 5 veto powers. Both Gaza now and Syria could have been prevented with peacekeeping missions if it weren't for the US and Russia a…

> Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. On the other hand, middle Eastern nations and Asian nations are typically protesting loudly, they don't protect Israel in the UN, they recognize the Palestinian state, they don't sell weapons to Israel.

This is just untrue. Go look at what major Arab countries are doing right now, or look at how China is selling weapons to Israel. It's not on the same level as Western support, but it's still there.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#975

Post by geysersam »

achierius wrote: post #974
geysersam wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. On the other hand, middle Eastern nations and Asian nations are typically protesting loudly, they don't protect Israel in the UN, they recognize the Palestinian state, they don't sell weapons to Israel.

This is just untrue. Go look at what major Arab countries are doing right now, or look at how China is selling weapons to Israel. It's not on the same level as Western support, but it's still there.

What's untrue?

Most Asian and ME countries recognize Palestine, most European/Western countries don't: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of...

About Chinese weapons exports it seems we have different sources. From what I can tell Israels arms imports are dominated by US and Germany, with scattered contributions from other European countries.

Chinas arms imports to Israel are miniscule by comparison.

On the other hand I'm sure China provides a lot of components to Israels military industry, but that's a different question.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#976

Post by stanfordkid »

pegasus wrote: post #780
throw310822 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it's very important to welcome people who changed their minds, there are a few things that still annoy me: - the situation was actually very clear from the start - Israel has been illegally occupying, enforcing apartheid, committing war crimes for decades. You always ignored it. - I don't hear any apology about the above, nor any indication that these people won't return to their default stance of prete…

Was it clear? Did we always ignore it? Not convinced at all. All was and is not well in Palestine, but one thing I know, it ain't cut-and-dry, and Israel going all Hamas on Palestine doesn't make it so either.

Umm... it absolutely was cut and dry. 75 years ago a set of westerners came and occupied another country through massive, brutal and widespread violence all under the approval of western govt's that themselves felt massive guilt about the holocaust. The Israeli gov't pretended to give Palestinians rights all while calculatedly trying to suppress any legitimate form of gov't (read about Israels massive support of Hamas starting in the 80s because they believed they would have a tougher "negotiating position" against extremists... guess that backfired. They enforced apartheid, blockades, mass surveillance etc. naturally that resulted in resistance. Is resistance justified? Who cares. Is it a natural consequence of material conditions? Absolutely.

I have a friend who would say anytime someone brings up that "it's a complex issue": "They should just stop stealing peoples houses dude". This pretty much sums it up. Maybe if they stopped that a few decades ago this wouldn't have happened.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#977

Post by BergAndCo »

Cyph0n wrote: post #908
ainiriand wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the spanish government at least, now we are horrible aparently.

Yes, Spain, Ireland, and Belgium were/are outliers. I am generalizing because the vast majority are complicit. It is also much simpler to do this than qualify each and every statement by enumerating the list of good or bad countries :)

[dead]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#978

Post by karim79 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #731
karim79 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gazans still hold Israeli hostages, Hamas, not Gazans. Nice play with language. > hostages, The thousands of Palestinian "administrative detainees" held without charge in Israel, are not hostages?

> 39% in Gaza supported the attacks by Hamas into Israel in October 2023 that triggered the conflict, 32 percentage points lower than six months earlier[1]. If 71% civilian supports some group, then it is not a terrorist group but a government, and using Gazans isn't an overreach. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-cease...

So saying then >50% Israelis (conservatively) support starvation of Gazans is not an overreach.

Also support for one group does not imply that all supporters take up arms in solidarity with said group.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#979

Post by karim79 »

dismalaf wrote: post #561
karim79 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gazans still hold Israeli hostages, Hamas, not Gazans. Nice play with language. > hostages, The thousands of Palestinian "administrative detainees" held without charge in Israel, are not hostages?

> Hamas, not Gazans. Nice play with language. Hamas claimed non-Hamas groups and some civilians held hostages. Some hostages were found in captivity guarded by "civilians". Groups like PIJ held hostages. So what's a nice catch-all term for the above groups?

Easy. It's a cheap generalisation, like "Israelis perpetuating man-made starvation in Gaza".

No, it's not all Israelis. It's the IDF (IOF) under instruction from the maniacs in charge.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#980

Post by splintercell »

Jensson wrote: post #534
crystal_revenge wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause The fact that Israel has no problem creating these civilian deaths is part of the problem. If you claim "human shields" you lose all credibly when you shoot nonetheless. It genuinely horrifying that you accept "well they made us kill all those kids". This would be easy to see if you accepted the Palestinian people as, well, people . > Again, what…

> Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that. This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now. So after 70 years of that it makes sense Israel are fed up with…

It's not even that. When Palestinians had widespread Arab support and their position was stronger, they kept on rejecting the two-state solution. Now, the situation is such that Israel can unilaterally get a one-state solution, so they're asking for a two-state solution.
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