Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Blocking Kiwifarms

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

971–980 of 1001 posts

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#971

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

convery wrote: post #249
nilsbunger wrote: post #56

Seems to me it would be better for Cloudflare to keep serving Kiwifarms, and cooperate with government requests for access logs / etc. Then at least our law enforcement would have data to help with finding threat actors.

The forum already deletes anything illegal (in the US) and hands out info to law-enforcement when asked. The operator posted this on their Telegram: "Cloudflare's decision to block the site was done without any discussion. The message I've received is a vague suspension notice. The message from Matthew Prince is unclear. If there is any threat to life on the site, I have received no communication from any law enforce…

That hints at the biggest problem with the oligopoly on public discourse.

If you have the power to remove someone's speech, only your side gets heard so you can make them look as bad as you want and they have little to no recourse.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#972

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #294
debacle wrote: post #176

I am a free speech absolutist, but I read the Wikipedia page on this site and it seems bad. "Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. That said, is anyone willing to steelman this website? Could this possibly be construed as just a big misunderstanding?

The wikipedia page is not honest and completely locked down.

Wikipedia isn't trustworthy for anything political or controversial: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ <-written by one of the founders of it

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#975

Post by Veen »

eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

> Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems.

Do you not see how concerning (not to mention arrogant) it is when a corporation decides to act because it believes the law is inadequate. When individuals do this, we call it vigilantism.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#976

Post by phendrenad2 »

AgentME wrote: post #411
Cyberdog wrote: post #49

They muffed it. They were proving to the world how reliable they could be and repairing the damage from the Stormfront debacle, and again they just showed how prone to caving to pressure they can be. What a joke. I will never use CF for anything I want kept online in the face of angry people.

It blows my mind that someone would judge a company for not hosting a literal neonazi website.

It makes sense if you're worried about the US becoming nazi itself. If a company will bow to the prevailing narrative, and naziism becomes popular in the US, won't cloudflare bow to that group also? Or, let's imagine a world where 90% of Americans are anti-abortion. Will Cloudflare host pro-choice sites, or will it bow to pressure from religious group and shut those down also? Having a backbone is kind of the Cloudflare business model. Of course there are limits to that, and banning nazis is one that most people can agree with. But I think if you're trying to stand up to, say, the CCP, Cloudflare isn't going to be very appealing.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#977

Post by phendrenad2 »

DanAtC wrote: post #382

I don't understand where the myth of a "free" Internet comes from. Since privatization in 1993, you've always been held to _someone's_ terms of service. Even if you become your own ISP--get an ASN, IP space, a place to rack equipment--you still have to find someone to peer with, and if you bring enough heat you'll find yourself dropped. Not to mention DNS which is subject to the laws of the country of registrar; plen…

There's a difference between literal freedom and de facto freedom. If there's an abandoned factory that kids like to graffiti, is it free for their grafitti use? It de facto is. If the owner puts a security guard there, then it is no longer de facto free.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#978

Post by phendrenad2 »

voganmother42 wrote: post #934
HereIGoAgain wrote: post #912

Just remember everyone, the precedence this sets.. All you have to do to get a site taken down is create an account and make a ridiculous threat, even if the post is taken down in less than 30 minutes and the user banned, the site is still guilty. And never forget that keffals has gone on record saying that their enemies (KF) is irredeemably evil because of the mean things they say, and thus no tactic against them is…

But the site is still up… All you have to do to is…use other providers, you are not entitled nor required to work with this service. Remember, all you have to do to get kicked out a wendys is to take your shirt off, wave it around your head like a helicopter and start shouting - the humanity!

Ah such a big difference between the words "should" and "must". Easy to confuse them though.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#979

Post by phendrenad2 »

unknownaccount wrote: post #707

Doesn’t this decision to arbitrarily moderate content compromise the possibility of CloudFlare being legally classified a common carrier? I also find it hilarious CloudFlare pretends to care about free speech here when they have been caught red handed arbitrarily canceling peoples services and domains + even going so far as to prevent people from transferring their domains to other registrars¹ https://news.ycombinato…

Common carrier protections are just something people talk about on HN and (long ago) Slashdot. It never appears in real court cases (does it?)

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#980

Post by phendrenad2 »

dymk wrote: post #439
philippejara wrote: post #364

And, just like that, the internet lost one of its most staunch defenders. I don't care for KF nor did I used to care about 8chan or stormfront, but it just shows that all the grandstanding from Matthew Prince was for show all along. and the worst of all? its fro nothing, the people doing whatever they were being accused of, which i'm still trying to piece together, are just gonna be in discords or the nth-chan that s…

I imagine you have never been the target of a KF abuse campaign.

But how does blocking KF change this? It's not like the doxxers are going to stop once their favorite website goes away.
Post reply on HN