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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#961

Post by ButlerianJihad »

godelski wrote: post #873
bayindirh wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's Wifi and Bluetooth one-touch toggle off for now buttons? This comparison rubs me off the wrong way every time I see, because. 1. The notifications clearly tell the behavior (doing $THING until tomorrow). 2. There's a way to turn them "really off". What LG does is completely different. IIRC from the teaser of this video, the microphone is never "completely" off or apps can re-enable them somehow.

Norman Doors. Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals. Apple could have done many different things to make the design clea…

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Spacecraft#Haggunenon_Ad...

  Marvin was able to touch the surface of the ship and open up an entry hatchway, and the interior of the ship was completely black. There were black controls labelled in black, on a black background, with a little light that lit up black, which made it difficult to control the ship. The ceiling and walls of the swaying cabin were also black, as well as the seats, control panel, the instruments and the little screws that held them in place. The thin tufted nylon floor covering was black, and when a corner of the foam underlay was lifted up that was also discovered to be was black.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#962

Post by gchamonlive »

ChoGGi wrote: post #951
phkahler wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask LG who has agreed to their wiretapping. They can't tell you if some guest in front of a TV has agreed or not. How can that be concent?

> concent I've been wondering; do you like to sing together with the LG chime sound?

Just bear in mind people from all over the world post here, and consent is an easy word to get wrong.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#963

Post by godelski »

bayindirh wrote: post #905
godelski wrote: post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norman Doors. Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals. Apple could have done many different things to make the design clea…

> Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. Yes, good design needs no language. However, it's not reasonable to see a toggle and think it's a permanent toggle. Esp, when it's a button. There are many buttons in the world which doesn't toggle. In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button. > Apple could have done many different thing…

  > In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.
Yet they're all circles

  > They added clear messaging
And it's common to put pull/push signs on doors. That doesn't fix design.

  > Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:
If that was enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not a few people being annoyed/confused either. I'd wager if you asked professional designers outside Apple that they'd agree that they don't communicate well.

They're inconsistent:

  - Radio buttons are blue when on but white when temporary disabled
    - all other buttons are white while enabled
    - cellular is green when enabled
    - battery saver is yellow when enabled
    - airplane mode is orange when enabled
    - the icon is red for rotate lock and silent
  - white background means both enabled and temporary disabled 
    - on most of the radio buttons they're blue when enabled and white when temporary, no off 
    - on others (vpn, rotate, silent, battery, etc) white background while enabled
  - personal hotspot, satellite, silent, and automotive cues have a cross out when disabled 
    - nothing else does
      - that includes radio things like VPN and airplane
Do I really need to continue? I trust you can find more on your own.

I also want to remind you that some people are colorblind.

Additionally that there are shapes other than circles and ellipses

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#964

Post by tjoff »

phkahler wrote: post #831
Animats wrote: post #572

Here are LG's contract terms for appliances.[1] They are awful. Not only can they listen in. You have a contractual requirement to tell everyone in range of an appliance that they may be eavesdropped upon. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members…

IANAL but without concent I think LG is comitting a crime here. The owner who ostensibly agreed to obtain concent through the ToS might be breaking their agreement, but wouldn't that be a separate issue? ToS and other click licenses have been making shit up for way too long.

If I'm a passenger in a tesla, does the owner and/or tesla break a law when neither informs me that I'm being spied on?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#965

Post by cogman10 »

mapt wrote: post #943
gchamonlive wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's absurd is that this doesn't void the terms by default. There should be limits to what companies can put in their ToS beyond which those terms aren't enforceable.

There are reasonableness limits inherent in contract law, under "Consideration".

Unfortunately, no. Common law requires famously very little consideration for a contract to be valid [1]. I can sign a contract where I give $100 and am given a penny back and that'd be valid consideration.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(law)

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#966

Post by throwaway219450 »

cameldrv wrote: post #860
stronglikedan wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they already have audio video surveillance signs posted everywhere from the moment you walk in so that would go over like a lead balloon

They have video surveillance signs. Audio is a different category in a lot of states. In California, it's illegal to record audio without consent of all of the parties, and I believe you can get a civil remedy of $5000 for this.

IANAL. In states with multi or all-party consent, there is usually some wording like "reasonable expectation" of privacy, which you don't have in public by default. The store could argue you have no expectation of privacy there, so they can record audio. There might be other legal codes, but I think this is how smart doorbell manufacturers are allowed to operate in those states.

> (c) For the purposes of this section, “confidential communication” means any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive, or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.

Penal Code § 632(c)

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#967

Post by beart »

bbor wrote: post #819
adithyassekhar wrote: post #792

> They also found where the microphone was software disabled via settings, it was STILL recording things but had the dB level so low that it looked like nothing but when amplified to +50dB later the conversations were actually still there.

Can someone confirm this part of it? I'm highly, highly dubious that these TVs are sending back random ambient conversation -- for one thing, it would be a truly monstrously-huge stream of data, no? I certainly believe that it sends back data when you use voice commands, ofc (both for advertising and product improvement). But this would be the first real case of something that's been a 100% false conspiracy theory fo…

I assumed from watching the video, the device is processing the audio locally and transmitting the results - text rather than audio.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#969

Post by Obscurity4340 »

godelski wrote: post #873
bayindirh wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's Wifi and Bluetooth one-touch toggle off for now buttons? This comparison rubs me off the wrong way every time I see, because. 1. The notifications clearly tell the behavior (doing $THING until tomorrow). 2. There's a way to turn them "really off". What LG does is completely different. IIRC from the teaser of this video, the microphone is never "completely" off or apps can re-enable them somehow.

Norman Doors. Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals. Apple could have done many different things to make the design clea…

Notice the bluetooth toggle only says it disconnects bluetooth devices until tomorrow. It doesnt turn off bluetooth because there is a profit incentive to keep all devices meshing for use in FindMy and AirTags and all that.

Same with WiFi. It doesnt even turn WiFi off, it just "disconnects" but keeps WiFi searching and whatever else. Why not have the option to make the toggle actually do the same thing as having to go all the way to Settings to do when the intention is clear and obvious?

Why does it take 2 presses and going a level deep to turn off something when the easy toggle makes it so smooth and easy to turn on which is conveniently the behavior they want

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#970

Post by avodonosov »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #39
avodonosov wrote: post #14

Telescreens. Can anyone recommend a non-spying TV brand or a model? (Modern)

I've been searching for one hour, and the only truly safe thing is an HTPC linked to an OS-free commercial display like these large VAs from ViewSonic: https://www.viewsonic.com/global/products/commercial-display... (goes from 45" to 100").

What software would you install on the HTPC?

User will typically want to have a remote control and have applications like youtube.

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