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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

cbc.ca

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#961

Post by relaxing »

dang wrote: post #844
relaxing wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It has since been heavily upvoted. The thing to do in such cases (i.e. when you notice an unfairly downvoted comment) is give it a corrective upvote and move on. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

“Corrective upvote” as a term is pretty hilarious — makes it sound like you think my vote is the correct one that will right the previous wrong the bozo downvoter. Utter solipsism. In 30 years of community moderation on the internet, I’ve never needed that term before. Thanks.

Anyway, I want to talk to the people who somehow hate Canadians or who find the concept amusing. There are far more interesting ideas to be had there than in rehashing political debates in the rest of this topic.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#962

Post by moralestapia »

usixk wrote: post #955

Current canuck here. Since Trudeau has been elected the likelihood of purchasing a home or finding a job has drastically reduced and continues to fall. Rising tides raise all boats, given that the rent has risen everywhere too. This creates a divide between the have and have-nots of property ownership and public or private employment. This divides ends in the individuals who have are happy since their investment skyr…

>Thoughts?

and prayers!

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#963

Post by cmrdporcupine »

SpecialistK wrote: post #912
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess what I'm not getting here is this: the rage about the "everyone that went too far" doesn't seem to have extended to the people who actually did that. By which I mean our provincial governments, with their ad hoc dubious and last minute irrational responses. Specifically, Doug Ford who seems to have suffered not a bit in terms of support but enacted the most draconian of COVID restrictions and lockdowns, all a…

The protests in Ottawa and the two border crossings ballooned from just being about the trucker mandates (which really didn't impact that many people, since trucking industry reps reported rates of vaccination in line with the general population) to being an all-out protest against restrictions in general. I did see several protests in BC, including at the legislature. What the federal government could have at least…

Ok: what could the feds do to release tension, concretely? They had no ability to undo any mandates, since 90% of them came from the provinces, not the feds. Likewise, the trucker thing was coming from the US.

I guess they could have maybe done some changes in tone -- but they may also have been seen by the population as giving into what were frankly seen by most as fringe radicals.

And finally, the actual leaders of the convoy would not have been interested. This wasn't their first rodeo. They wanted to bring the govt down, and not because of COVID but because of everything -- they had previously been in Ottawa trying to pull a similar thing around "pipelines" and carbon tax.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#964

Post by bavell »

tw04 wrote: post #865
blowsand wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure which town got the prominent coverage, but here in America a lot of the coverage we saw looked like a peaceful presence, organized to allow emergency passage, and frequently we saw what looked like a fair - lots of families strolling through, eating food, adults and kids dancing, buying random things from vendors. We saw interviews with drivers who told their stories and said they were there to peacefully pr…

On what? Fox News? Because that wasn’t at all how it was portrayed by Klepper who actually took the time to be onsite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbmiKG56zuw

Here's [0] a muuuuch more balanced overview of the situation, the day after the ambassador bridge was opened.

[0] https://youtu.be/f7YIpSWqT0s?si=0DdPECPkBcU1AKKj

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#965

Post by adamc »

throaway89 wrote: post #546
adamc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Canadian, but no, a protest protests and gives voice to the disagreement. Blocking other people's rights is not just a protest and is likely to trigger action to protect others. That's how it goes everywhere that has rights. Normally, some effort is made to do it peacefully, but there are no countries where you can halt the economy whenever you want to force people to negotiate with you.

A protest which isn't allowed to do anything other than raise voices is a powerless and toothless protest.

I don't agree. There were a bunch of university protests over Gaza (slapped down for stupid reasons by university administrators under pressure from government), and, really, they just made noise, but they got a lot of people to notice, including myself. And to ask ourselves, what do I think about this?

If you are expecting protests to force someone's hand, that isn't protest or protected political speech, that's coercion. Some forms of that are legal (e.g., strikes), but there are pretty sharply defined limits.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#966

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

mlekoszek wrote: post #853
joemazerino wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories of harassment and assaults? Provide one source for any assault.

Glad you asked. * Pushing a reporter live on air: https://x.com/mylenecrete/status/1494874304814751744 * Beating a counter-protestor on camera: https://x.com/timabray/status/1488231660260839430?t=Bx4fGVxR... * Attacking a shop employee for masking up on their way to work: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=23006638534070... * Smashing windows of a business with a Pride flag: https://imgur.com/a/80bmPQ8 * T…

Most of these are from the mainstream media. How about the truckers side of the story for each incident? For all you know it could be staged.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#967

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

clwg wrote: post #656
catgary wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

I live in Ottawa. We were failed by all levels of government, our police services, and our intelligence services. The convoy drove across the country, broadcasting their intentions on social media. Yet, everyone acted shocked when they did exactly what they said they were going to do. I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside F* Trudeau, but they were comp…

>I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside

What exactly would you do if you were a trucker? i.e your livelihood has been denied for a long time?

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#968

Post by eumenides1 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #704
clwg wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Ottawa. We were failed by all levels of government, our police services, and our intelligence services. The convoy drove across the country, broadcasting their intentions on social media. Yet, everyone acted shocked when they did exactly what they said they were going to do. I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside F* Trudeau, but they were comp…

>I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside F* Trudeau I would assert that so-called "votes of no-confidence" in politicians are legitimate protest, even if they do not criticize any specific policy or behavior. It would be a strange world to live in where protests could or would be shut down and everyone would taunt the protesters with "but you didn't have…

There is a giant chasm between "F* Trudeau" and "Stalin is bad".

Some people would like you to believe it's close, and they would be wrong. Stalin murdered/tortured people en masse. Trudeau oversaw a government (democratically elected mine you) through a once in a century pandemic.

The convoy of protesters made a point, was allow to make it for sufficient period of time, and was told to go away when a majority of Canadians didn't agree with their stance.

When faced with reality of their unpopular nature and their inability to build a momentum or consensus. They dug in.

At some point, enough is enough. The Pandemic ended, public heath was restore, and none of what the protesters did mattered. None of the protesters continue to be persecuted by the Government of Canada, Ontario, or the City.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#969

Post by rossdavidh »

bamboozled wrote: post #754
rossdavidh wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting theory, but there are other hypotheses out there. One I've heard a lot is that the post-pandemic inflation surge hit everyone, and made all incumbents unpopular. I suppose that if the anti-incumbent results across the globe continue for several more years, we will be able to rule that out?

It's also easier to lie about what the current government has done wrong, there are no laws against it. You can just lie at a velocity never seen before on this planet, spread falsehoods via social media, breed outrage, spread conspiracies and then elected. It's disgusting.

From https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-the-first-bi...

"The bitterness and rivalries seen in the partisan 1796 campaign got worse in the 1800 rematch between Adams and Jefferson. At one point in that race, Jefferson’s supporter, notorious pamphleteer James Calendar, claimed that Adams was a hermaphrodite, while Adams’ people said Jefferson would openly promote prostitution, incest, and adultery..."

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#970

Post by sneak »

kubb wrote: post #914
sneak wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we think it might be a little intellectually dishonest to equate a peaceful political protest with an armed hostage-taker? I think this is important regardless of whether you believe in their specific target of protest or not. The right to peacefully protest is very very important, and your feelings on a specific protest should be wholly divorced from the importance of preserving the right to protest in general. N…

Armed hostage-taker? It’s unfortunate you feel the need to misrepresent my position rather than address the real issue. This kind of distortion suggests an agenda. Regardless how sympathetic you might feel towards the protesters and the politicians standing behind them, we should focus on honest dialogue. It is a fact that the protest was done in a way which disrupted the lives of the residents and jeopardized their…

“holding [whatever] hostage” means an armed attacker and threat to life. It’s no misrepresentation, you were using exaggerated and hyperbolic terms to describe a peaceful protest.

Nobody’s safety was jeopardized. Some disruption is the point of a protest; you can’t operate the building during a sit-in, for example.

“protest in a way that doesn’t affect anything and allows society to ignore you” is not a legitimate or constructive type of feedback.

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