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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#961

Post by dmix »

vaidhy wrote: post #935
Loquebantur wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York Times is said to have an article in the works for sunday, providing more background presumably. Funny, how HN is/isn't reacting to "US in possession of non-human technology".

From the comments, you desperately want to believe in this non-human thing for whatever reasons. No one else believes that is actually true. So far, your arguments are that Grusch is telling the truth and no one is listening to him. You have ignored all the contrary evidence including the fact there is nothing documented, he has repeated what someone has said to him and that our sensors and our senses are not infalli…

The better question is why do they still believe yet another indirect claim by an alleged single “reputable” human source when every single time it turns out to be a big nothing. History is littered with examples.

If they can’t grasp the obvious pattern here and determine that it requires far, far more than some random guy claiming some agency is lying to the rest of the entire US gov then there’s probably not much to dig into with OP. The rationale is always paper thin deep borderline conspiracy stuff aka “I’m just asking questions” and any further you find a poor (or unwilling) grasp of science and a naive perspective on how the world/governments work.

Surely this time is different. All the movie stereotypes about hidden black alien programs always-US run were really true!

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#962

Post by lisasays »

doodlebugging wrote: post #959
lisasays wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their case the thing they all described blocked out the stars almost from horizon to horizon as it passed over. It was described as huge, black, and silent with a well-defined edge that one could follow across the sky as the stars in front were blocked and those behind reappeared. They said they didn't notice it until they realized all the normal night sounds had completely stopped as it approached and once it pas…

I would think that people who spend a large part of their lives outside working a small farm/ranch after their day jobs would recognize a cloud if they saw one no matter the time of day. I acknowledge that a cloud would block the view of everything behind it but in this case I'm pretty sure it wasn't a cloud.

The thing is clouds sometimes have unusual formations, appear at surprising altitudes and move very quickly (or appear to, if one misjudges the altitude).

As I'm sure they've been told already. I'm not denying their perceptions; and of course I wasn't there. It's just that my threshold of proof for extraterrestrial vehicles is ... quite high.

And sometimes unexplained observations are just that -- unexplained.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#963

Post by gremlinsinc »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #589
thekevan wrote: post #51

Am I missing something or is the only thing that makes this different than so many other "insider" claims is that this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories? It reads just like so many claims like we have heard in the past, but this time people think the guy is more reliable. It is pretty funny that the one of the people often quoted who backs up Grusch's claims is Jona…

I’ve not taken a side yet, but to answer your first question, the original journalism outlet that published his story is The Debrief (who are pretty widely respected in the defense world), and they documented the source checking they did on Grusch: https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...

even if he and the sources all know a friend a work on these teams, it's still not enough evidence. im very skeptical at the same time, I'm not completely shut off to the idea, I mean I'd say 98 to 2 percent are the odds differential but that's up from like 0.00000001 percent previously, before all the ufo releases.

I'm warming up, and I'm not naive enough to claim what a civilization a million years now advanced than us with bigger and more efficient brains(or ai) could accomplish in large enough time scales.

This is definitely the just trustworthy source to date, perhaps, but still the evidence isn't enough to blindly just say, yes it's definitely aliens.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#964

Post by mbrochh »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

Just look at his eyes during the interview. The guy is CLEARLY lying and spelling out learned phrases. It's all a big show. There are no UFOs and there never will be.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#965

Post by WalterBright »

stevenhuang wrote: post #930
WalterBright wrote: post #108

https://qz.com/911990/the-cottingley-fairy-hoax-of-1917-is-a... 'nuff said

Been a big fan of your work but I think your take is wrong on this one, Walter. Saving this for later to say I told you so :).

I've been hearing "this time it's for real" my whole life. They never pan out.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#966

Post by spywaregorilla »

jredwards wrote: post #269
spywaregorilla wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what kind of nuanced compromise exists that does not paint jesus as a liar, lunatic, or lord exclusively?

That he believed a falsehood? Does that make him a lunatic? Would that not necessarily make billions of people lunatics?

I do think believing that you are a deity is a sufficiently far fetched falsehood to justify calling you a lunatic. For the sake of argument I suppose I'm willing to accept "profoundly confused individual" as a fourth alternative. But I don't think it helps the rhetorical point against painting arguments for "lord lunatic or liar" as an unjustified demand for absolute beliefs.

And no, you're not a lunatic for believing someone else's bullshit.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#967

Post by doodlebugging »

lisasays wrote: post #962
doodlebugging wrote: post #959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that people who spend a large part of their lives outside working a small farm/ranch after their day jobs would recognize a cloud if they saw one no matter the time of day. I acknowledge that a cloud would block the view of everything behind it but in this case I'm pretty sure it wasn't a cloud.

The thing is clouds sometimes have unusual formations, appear at surprising altitudes and move very quickly (or appear to, if one misjudges the altitude). As I'm sure they've been told already. I'm not denying their perceptions; and of course I wasn't there. It's just that my threshold of proof for extraterrestrial vehicles is ... quite high. And sometimes unexplained observations are just that -- unexplained.

I understand the high bar that people set for situations like this. I am a geophysicist by education. It wasn't clouds. They've seen a lot of clouds and stars etc. and grew up around machines and animals.

I left out some of the details on purpose since the whole story is not mine to tell. They told me because they knew that I had done a lot of reading about the subject when other friends had something odd happen to them and they hoped that my physics studies would help them understand some of it better.

Some things are just unexplainable with our conventional knowledge. Over time that should/could change. If we already knew everything there would be no more need for science as curiosity about unfamiliar things could be satisfied by a simple query of existing knowledge. It would be a boring reality with no novelty or mysteries. In the worst case, a small group of people would control access to knowledge, withholding key information that would empower the rest of the people by helping them understand how all the mysteries of the world fit together to form our boring reality where every question has a clear, unique answer. Luckily we are nowhere near that point and there are many things left to be discovered.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#968

Post by wolverine876 »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

> All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believe". These individuals would take vague evidence and through their own nature would exaggerate and fill in the blanks. They then nudged those individuals with carefully curated credible fake evidence. Then they just sat back and waited for a few of those guys to "leak" the information.

It's ironic to use a baseless conspiracy theory to accuse someone else of a disinformation conspiracy.

I feel sad to see that in the top post of an HN discussion.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#969

Post by TechBro8615 »

admax88qqq wrote: post #686
TechBro8615 wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, nobody has ever lied to congress before! And what are the chances their testimony pops up right after the introduction of a program incentivizing whistleblowers to come forward?

Wouldn't you expect their testimony to pop up after the incentive program independently of it's accuracy or truthfulness?

I wouldn't expect it to be independent of truthfulness. The Cobra Effect [0] suggests that offering a reward for something, in this case public airing of testimony, increases the likelihood of false testimony given the absence of any truthful testimony.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina...

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#970

Post by mvkel »

This reminds me of the psyop that the British executed in WWII: that carrots improve your vision.

They spread that misinformation to cover the fact that they had new radar tech that let them bomb at night.

I wonder if the US gov has some kind of hovering tech and they're smoke signaling it under UFO?

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