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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#961

Post by seized »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

The Paradox of Tolerance applies quite well here...

The segment being squeezed out wasn't willing to debate. There's been a year of debate and tolerance about the merits of masks, science, conspiracy, etc. The segment being deplatformed didn't listen to or learn from it. They were far from powerless during that time.

Not every side or segment has the rule about good faith like HN does.

I say the above as a Canadian, watching that segment spread it's toxic behavior here.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#962

Post by manicdee »

quotemstr wrote: post #949
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter ID, removal of hackable voting machines, and hand count of votes are not disenfranchisement. You may have been told by the media that it is, but it's not. Many advanced democracies have such things in place.

Yep. One side is screaming "No fraud! You're bad for even considering the possibility!" while simultaneously being against every single transparency or robustness measure that might actually convince the other side that there was no fraud. Hmmmm...

One side is insisting on so-called transparency and accountability measures which make fraud much easier. Hmmm...

In the meantime it’s not the vote counting system that is the problem so much as the single candidate seats, winner takes all style representation along with the electoral college.

The people who actually are underrepresented would be far better off with multiple electorates being merged and represented by multiple representatives, and switching to something like Hare-Clarke voting (single transferable vote).

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#963

Post by zepto »

wisty wrote: post #726
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

I think what really annoys the far right is how the far left seems to get an easy ride. There's plenty of left-wing conspiracy theories. The current ones seem to be that the Capitol Police were allowing it to happen (not just through incompetence). This is given a huge amount of credence, but I'm willing to bet that it will mostly be proven to be conspiracy thinking and hysteria. It's actually a bit exhausting. It's…

I agree with you that left wing logic doesn’t get attacked as ferociously as right wing logic does.

Having said that, the blame for that in my view lies with the right - where else is the critique going to come from?

The far left doesn’t seem to get an easy ride when it comes to the street: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-respo...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#964

Post by manicdee »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

There are only so many times you can “debate” someone who isn’t willing to learn before you start slamming doors in their faces. Along the way you spend a significant amount of effort trying to see things from their perspective, but their perspective is simply that they are right and you are wrong and the facts don’t matter.

Poor education and a reliance on Murdoch/Sinclair or other similar media for their information is the main visible cause of this condition.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#965

Post by zepto »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #859
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

I can tell you from my experience that, regardless of forum, I feel rarely given the chance to even give a perspective that I feel is taken seriously, because the immediate assumption is that anyone who has opinion "x" on subject "y" must be a bigot and/or uneducated (and therefore should not be listened to), and, using circular logic, they know this because opinion "x" is a bigoted or uneducated opinion. I have high…

This is the best comment I’ve read here for years.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#966

Post by zepto »

phs318u wrote: post #877
kiawe_fire wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you from my experience that, regardless of forum, I feel rarely given the chance to even give a perspective that I feel is taken seriously, because the immediate assumption is that anyone who has opinion "x" on subject "y" must be a bigot and/or uneducated (and therefore should not be listened to), and, using circular logic, they know this because opinion "x" is a bigoted or uneducated opinion. I have high…

Thank you for your comment. It's thoughtful and insightful. And while we could argue some of the points (e.g. health-care - my view is Obamacare was hobbled). If I may however, I'd like to point out how unlikely it is that anyone making this exact comment would ever be banned from any platform. Given the topic of this post, this is an important point. And by the way, it's this quality of post that keeps me coming bac…

“ If I may however, I'd like to point out how unlikely it is that anyone making this exact comment would ever be banned from any platform.”

They might not literally be banned from Twitter, but I have seen many people attempt to make reasoned comments like this be effectively deplatformed, shunned, and shamed for making such comments.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#967

Post by zepto »

Proziam wrote: post #815
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

> I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. The reality is that most Trump supporters are focused on economics and governmental overreach, not race. They are angry that businesses are shut down, and people are unemployed. They are angry that, over the past several decades, production in this country has dropped to near-nonexistence. They are angry that the loc…

It’s possible to both think that the Capitol Riots were absolutely treasonous and an attempt to subvert the constitution, and agree that reflexively calling people Nazis, White Supremacists, or Racists, for expressing totally legitimate views had a lot to do with why they were angry enough to do it.

Just to be clear - I don’t think the capitol rioters views were legitimate, but I do think the views of a lot of people on the right are, and the rioters thought they were acting with their support.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#968

Post by disruptalot »

tw04 wrote: post #363
disruptalot wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who on earth says they need or deserve a "public channel to express themselves"? This is prime "Free Speech for Me - But Not for Thee". You're making a very easy generalization. Not any significant portion of people expressing themselves contributed to any of the events you are mentioning. It's funny because you can read the exact same thought process from the opposite side, against say the BLM protests.

>This is prime "Free Speech for Me - But Not for Thee". That was a pretty bold assumption on your part, and couldn't be any further from the truth. I don't participate on Twitter or Facebook, and I'm getting by just fine. Somehow I don't feel my freedom of speech has been in any way limited. So I can tell you with 100% certainty that you can in fact get by just fine without having a "public channel to express yoursel…

I may have made some assumptions about you personally but the points still stand.

You can speak for yourself with regards to your need for social media or platforming of any kind. Just remember that where we're going, there are no limits. Next you're off HN. Next is hosting providers. Then it's the internet (ISPs). So sure, they're all private companies but to ignore that fundamental impact is odd to say the least.

I will assume then, that you also concluded that BLM supporters as a group did not "express themselves peacefully" as there were plenty of linked violence, in aggregate well beyond what we witnessed a few days ago. It would be a breath of fresh air if that was really the case but I struggle to find consistency of principle among people these days and making that comparison is an attempt to highlight that.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#969

Post by zepto »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #682
botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

Because every single time the left agrees to sit down and have a conversation with “reason and logical arguments” they get met with bad-fair arguments. In spite of this, they keep offering. As soon as they do anything except bend-over-backwards to accomodate the right, they are met with “so much for the tolerant left”. Is it any surprise that people get fed up when this is all they’re ever met with. If you can’t come…

“every single time the left agrees to sit down and have a conversation with “reason and logical arguments” they get met with bad-fair arguments“

Absolutely true.

Also true:

“every single time the right agrees to sit down and have a conversation with “reason and logical arguments” they get met with bad-fair arguments“

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#970

Post by strathmeyer »

kemitchell wrote: post #761
strathmeyer wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content moderation is a form of free speech. A police state is when the state tells you that you have to allow something.

For those interested, the relevant search term for United States law is "compelled speech".

I am an old school hacker/programmer and for some reason I can't rise above 300 karma on HN because of how much people hate discussing free speech. In another thread someone called me 'Joseph Stalin' for advocating for free expression.
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