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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

951–960 of 1001 posts

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#951

The Economist is not neutral on this - it has numerous editorial staff with a long history of transphobia, and a very vested interest in trying to propagate a general backlash against rights for trans people. Much of this article is vague - things are "growing" with little evidence to back such assertions up. The reason for that is that they are primarily wishful thinking.

You just supplied a case example for their argument.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#952

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

Human society has no "laws" by nature, the closest observable in nature with the great apes is a brute "winner" takes it all society, that is not capable to create and sustain complexity and coherence.

To compensate this, humanity has "contract" cults who form a basic law providing form of society, protecting the weaker party form getting exploited and abused. These contract cults exists since the dawn of time and have been shaped into various forms, mostly with mythological wrappings, we designate as religion today. Hounded into the service as contract cultists, have been all sexual deviants of a society. Always. Which is why if you watch carefully, its actually selected for.

A emotional reaction to question regarding sexual deviancy from the norm, is a important signal during the mating process, regardless on what side of the political spectrum you are.

Gender ideology is a synthetic contract cult, and while it has all the other negatives, previous religion incarnations carried with them, it also brings alot of freedom to the cultists and tries to do away with alot of pain. Abolishing it, is not possible, as it will simply lead to other contract cults forming.

The best that can be accomplished is, preventing the church from intervening in fields of science society depends on and finding a new separation of church and state, with this contract cult.

PS: Bad engineered religions, lead to a faltering rule of law in societys, which then return in the long run to the "winner" takes it all societal model, destroying complexity capability.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#953
post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polls have a way of shifting rapidly. People put down what they think they're supposed to put down. See how fast support for gay rights tilted as more people came out. Most people weren't really committed to homophobia, but they thought they were expected to seem to believe certain things. There's a name for the phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralistic_ignorance

you think universities focusing on gender are affected by this?

I'm not sure what this means. Universities are big, sprawling things. Even universities known for one thing have a wide range of majors.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#954
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge part of advocating for the right to self-identify is about respecting identity whether you like/respect someone or not. She didn't get her contract renewed because she made it clear she was going to be an asshole to coworkers on this exact dimension. Correct gendering/identification is not something you have to earn. I still write J.K. Rowling's name out like that because it's how she goes by even though I wou…

J.K. Rowling has stated her love of transpeople and her wish to see them be fully accepted members of society. She has differences of opinion about the best political approach to achieving equality. Because she makes a rational, temperate argument that you do not like, you "wouldn't waste spit on her in hell." Which of you is the more hateful?

I've had priests tell me they love me and want me to be a fully accepted member of society. There's just this one problem...

So no. I don't believe the kind words she uses to paper over the harmful misinformation she spreads out of her confirmation shopping cart.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#955
post #530
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a claim about ideology. You made a claim about medical professionals. That is not particularly relevant to what I claimed. I stand by my claim. The online echo chambers that children, including my own, seek out very much push the ideology that any claim to be male, female, non-binary or whatever must be accepted at face value. And that the person who is making the claim should have the right to any treatment t…

> any claim to be male, female, non-binary or whatever must be accepted at face value. And that the person who is making the claim should have the right to any treatment that they wish, up to and including surgery. I can understand some caution around the latter part of this quote, given how traumatic, invasive, and costly surgery can be. It is a defensible and reasonable position that there should be _some_ barrier-…

> But how can anyone _possibly_ deny the first part?

Some people claim to be cats. The argument is fairly leaking too. You might argue it is different for gender and to a degree that is true. Doesn't But this argument is pretty leaking too.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#956

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter argument to this is that African Americans are more likely to commit crimes because they are, on average, more poor because of systemic racism, not because they are biologically predisposed to committing crimes.

Are you saying that it would be okay to have segregated restrooms if someone could prove a biological basis for the somewhat higher violent crime rate among black Americans? Because if you're not saying that, I don't see how this is a counter argument.

If you could find statistical evidence (controlled for income) that shows black Americans commit _insert violent crime_ at 9x [1] the rate of other races, then I would absolutely be in favor of taking steps that mitigated that crime happening. That's an extremely controversial thing to say, but the point is moot - as far as I am aware nobody has done such an analysis, and nobody wants to. However, there are plenty of species in which the males rape the women [2] because such a thing is simply advantageous from an evolutionary standpoint.

[1] https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_coercion_among_animals

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By allowing the author to hide behind anonymity it reveals The Economist's biases and their stake in the debate by asserting that "terf is a slur" and representing "gender critical" ideologies as "mainstream." Why do you wish the author was named--so you can have their head? You sound like the people in the article trying to stifle debate

There are plenty of great reasons why author's in reputable publications should (and shouldn't) be identified. I frequently track threads by journalist in order to understand bias. For instance, when I see scathing articles about Bernie Sanders being America's greatest enemy appear across ostensibly venerated and elite publications, I can look up an author's catalog of published work and discover that they are eg- an…

I agree. In this case, I think anonymity is useful and valid though.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#958
post #911
post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports fairness is basically a transphobe dogwhistle at this point. Major athletic organizations already have policies in place that say that trans women can’t compete unless x,y,z criteria are met which is typically a minimum number of years on HRT and T levels not more than something. The issue is that there is a trade-off being made here. A trans woman athlete likely has a better bone structure than the average ci…

Not just bones. Muscle mass and the rest doesn't just disappear. In the sport i do (rugby), it's been evaluated to be a danger to players (increased risk of injury), and i would wager most contact sports are similar.

Muscle mass does just disappear in the exact same way as it does when someone stops steroids. It’s not instantaneous which is why places require 12-24 months of constant hormones.

Also you picked the one single example where trans women have been sorta kinda banned with basically no concrete justification, caused the world to roast them publicly, and then clubs largely ignored them and came up with their own rules — like France and the US changed the requirements to time on HRT and T levels like every other sport and the UK did a height and weight limit which, while odd, is actually a lower bar than time on HRT.

Outright bans on trans women will basically never be necessary when HRT is so effective. If by some chance there is a sport where it’s not enough you can start imposing greater restrictions like requiring trans women reach a certain (low) weight to shed any pre-transition muscle.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#959

The Economist is not neutral on this - it has numerous editorial staff with a long history of transphobia, and a very vested interest in trying to propagate a general backlash against rights for trans people. Much of this article is vague - things are "growing" with little evidence to back such assertions up. The reason for that is that they are primarily wishful thinking.

They aren’t transphobic. They understand science. There’s a difference.

No, they are actively transphobic.

Even the Economist agrees, having withdrawn a piece calling for the compulsory sterilisation of transpeople previously.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#960

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must admit that I’m apprehensive to give an answer given this thread’s…liveliness, but I’ll do my best. “Woman” describes a collection of chromosomal and phenological traits observed within an ongoing and temporal culture lens. A human is often perceived as a woman when she simultaneously embodies a variety of these traits, especially so when those traits contrast that which is considered male. Much like the concep…

Apologies if this question is too stupid, I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand things better. If gender is a complete social construct and 'man' and 'woman' are something that is traits observed within an ongoing and temporal culture lens, then why not create another of your own? Most problems that I see in this debate are due to one group wanting to widen the scope of a existing understanding, the other w…

It’s a fair question. I can’t speak for all trans women, but the impression I get is that many trans people would prefer to think of their transition as a medical issue to be managed back into the gender binary. You’ll probably get varying answers depending on just how far someone is in their transition.

This doesn’t come up often but I think cis folks aren’t aware that many trans folk “graduate” out of the community once they feel sufficiently transitioned. After a few years of hormones and surgery, many would just prefer to go on with their life — skipping the debates and games of political football.

Personally speaking, the concept of a third space wouldn’t be so bad, but making gendered spaces less necessary to begin with seems like a more realistic target. Historically, women were chained to their homes because of a lack of public restrooms. Why we didn’t opt for single-stalls and shared facilities is probably more to do with existing building codes and social norms, rather than a natural order of things.

This reply is getting a little too long, but I’d like to pass on the much wiser words of Kate Bornstein:

    Then there's gender attribution, whereby we look at somehody and say, "that's a man," or "that's a woman." And this is important because the way we perceive another's gender affects the way we relate to that per­son. Gender attribution is the sneaky one. It's the one we do all the time without thinking about it; kinda like driving a sixteen-wheeler down a crowded highway...without thinking about it.
    In this culture, gender attribution, like gender assignment, is phallo­ centric. That is, one is male until perceived otherwise. According to a study done by Kessler and McKenna, one can extrapolate that it would take the presence of roughly four female cues to outweigh the presence ofone male cue: one is assumed male until proven otherwise. That's one reason why many women today get "sirred" whereas very few men get called "ma'am."
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