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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#951

Post by chillacy »

quotha wrote: post #695
chillacy wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe elaborate your comment further to prevent confusion? When you commented >"I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war" I read it as "I agree that the situation is unfair but I disagree with how they decided to uncover it because it was deliberate".

Yes exactly, I don’t know how much effort they put in to just discussing it with Apple, but it is clear they planned this out and that’s why I don’t like about it. And their plan seems a bit melodramatic to me.

Okay and do you think that there's an analogy with Rosa Parks who also intentionally broke the law to highlight how it was unfair?

There are a number of facets in common here:

1. What is legal is not necessarily what is right.

2. You can intentionally break a rule/law and then use the press to highlight your case.

Maybe you would disagree with Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement's methods as well, and that's fine, certainly many people did disagree at the time (more then than now though).

I'm just pointing out that there are parallels in history for this kind of intentional rule-breaking and subsequent PR campaign.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#952

Post by stale2002 »

Razengan wrote: post #905
stale2002 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have access to it, because Apple is engaging in anti-competitive practices that are illegal, thats why.

Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite outside of Fortnite, without giving any money to Epic?

Anti-competitiveness becomes worse, and illegal, if a market is larger.

Many practices which would be perfectly legally normally, become illegal if your company is large enough.

The market for iPhone apps is much much larger than the market for fortnite skins.

If the market for specifically fortnite skins was 50 billion dollars a year, then maybe you would have a point, but it is not.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#953

Post by count »

mantap wrote: post #594
count wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't. It just means it's users have to take extra steps. I use non-notarized software every day on a Mac.

It's technically possible yes, but Epic's position is much much worse than that. They won't be able to legally build any app because the SDK is proprietary and only available to registered developers.

The SDK for iOS, sure. The comment was about Mac apps though.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#954

Post by pwinnski »

modeless wrote: post #386
pwinnski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might see a difference between "a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store" and a developer who deliberately violated the policies and then filed a lawsuit and started an extensive PR campaign.

Epic needed to demonstrate that they and consumers were harmed in order to have standing to sue. If Apple's policies are illegal then Epic is not bound to follow them and retaliation is unjustified. It won't be known until it's decided in court. That's why Epic's motion should be granted to prevent retaliation until the court decides.

Epic's motion is to allow them to continue to deliberately flout the rules of the App Store, which opens up a lot of other issues.

Apple has signaled that Epic is welcome to submit a version of their app which does not violate their rules, and they will approve that. They're walking a fine line, but I think their legal argument is sound on that score.

We can agree or disagree about the overall right or wrong of Apple's rules, that's separate from the issue of Epic's motion, which is absolute nonsense.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#955

Post by danudey »

Hamuko wrote: post #253
danudey wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Epic thinks that Apple's and Google's store conditions are onerous, just wait until they find out what it's like to ship a game on PS4 or XBox.

If only Epic had ever published a game on PS4 or the Xbox… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_by_Epic_Games

thatsthejoke.gif

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#956

Post by danudey »

nightski wrote: post #234
danudey wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Epic thinks that Apple's and Google's store conditions are onerous, just wait until they find out what it's like to ship a game on PS4 or XBox.

Actually shipping on Xbox one is quite simple and mostly free with the ID@Xbox program or the Creators program.

The ID@Xbox program is for indie developers, not multibillion-dollar corporations.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#957

Post by danudey »

saagarjha wrote: post #886
kalleboo wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would work technically, but legally would a company that has been banned from the developer program have their developers use "Personal Teams" also be against the Terms of Service?

You can’t use Apple’s developer tools, period.

You absolutely can use Apple's developer tools without a developer account, and you absolutely can build and run code on a device without a developer account. I'm not sure why Epic claimed otherwise (other than that losing their developer account makes it far more inconvenient), but it's really just fearmongering to try to get the public on their side.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#958

Post by saagarjha »

danudey wrote: post #957
saagarjha wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t use Apple’s developer tools, period.

You absolutely can use Apple's developer tools without a developer account, and you absolutely can build and run code on a device without a developer account. I'm not sure why Epic claimed otherwise (other than that losing their developer account makes it far more inconvenient ), but it's really just fearmongering to try to get the public on their side.

The tools have EULA on them, though.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#959

Post by danudey »

mvn9 wrote: post #323
danudey wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still build and test on-device, they just won't be able to publish anything to the app store. Specifically, in XCode, they can add an Apple ID (any Apple ID) and use that to build on a device.[1] This creates a "personal team"[2] which you can use to test on your devices. [1] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/devaf282080a [2] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev17411c009

Why then all those monopoly-discussions? Cannot any program be 'side-loaded' by creating a personal team? Or the other way round: What good would be a personal team for epic if they cannot test their games on actual phones? If personal teams allow side-loading of apps, why isn't this a way to distribute apps? Why is there no app store for personal team apps?

Other people have pointed out that the certificates don't last as long and you need to constantly re-sign your apps. This can be worked around, for sure, but it does mean that if you're out of the house when the cert expires, you cannot use that app until you get home.

It also requires a Mac; Windows or Linux owners of iPhones are out of luck.

Lastly, you lose access to a lot of features; push notifications, IAP, automatic updates, iCloud, etc.

Basically, if Epic wanted to do this, they'd have to let everyone download the code and assets for Fortnite (likely hundreds of GB), then users would have to build it on their devices (which probably would take hours), then install it on their devices, then they would have to pay via Epic and not through iTunes. Whenever they wanted to update Fortnite they'd have to update the source tree and assets and rebuild the app again.

And again, all of this would have to be on a Mac. I know a lot of people who own Macs which don't even have enough disk space to build something like Fortnite, even if they used it for literally nothing else.

TL;DR Epic would have to open-source Fortnite and users would have to jump through irritating and potentially impossible hoops basically every day.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#960

Post by quenix »

HeavenFox wrote: post #19
jedberg wrote: post #3

It's fascinating to see the replies to the tweets. It appears most people don't care. They just want their game to work. A lesson in how your customers don't care about how your product is made.

A cursory scan of the Twitter thread suggests most people who have expressed an opinion are on team Apple, blaming Epic for violating Apple's term of service.

Ditto. Twitter and Reddit both.
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