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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#941

Post by lucianbr »

saubeidl wrote: post #918
lucianbr wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rules can you possibly have that distinguish the expert and the manipulator in all cases, without abuse? I think free speech comes from the same base as universal vote: any selection mechanism would be corrupted and in the end cause more harm than good. That is why the solution is to let everyone speak / vote. If you have some uncorruptible people or mechanism for selection, just use that to make policy decision…

I think the solution is to elect a commission of experts to be deciding this. Term limits. Separate independent institution from the government - no meddling. Critical thinking even in those capable of it is a limited resource. I can't spend all day every day critically examining every single statement the internet flings at me - it's mentally exhausting and wears one down. Let's elect proxies to do it for us.

Elect by the people at large? People who voted for Trump and such? What's the point in an elected institution separated from the government - the government is already elected, and people will mostly vote for candidates from the same parties in all elections.

Besides, "elect a comission of experts" is a contradiction. Experts are not elected. Expertise is not determined by voting. You want to appoint or select a comission of experts, or elect a comission of politicians. These are the choices. Appointment or selection will be done by someone else, likely politicians too.

You just hope some incorruptible competent people will get there by magic. They will not.

If you could do this, just elect a comission of experts to run the country, instead of this "truth comission" that makes sure people are well informed to vote correctly in elections for the real government, which will in turn run the country. Why do the indirection? There is no reason, if you could "elect" good people, but you can't.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#942

Post by cartofupai »

arter45 wrote: post #736

As an Italian with little interest in watching soccer (pirated or not), I have just read AGCOM's decision and it provides a bit more context (although with typical legalese language): - right holders used the piracy shield platform to report Cloudflare-owned IP/FQDNs used for piracy streaming - Italian anti-piracy law mandates that "IT service providers" (rough translation) have to comply with AGCOM orders by enforci…

Thanks, it does give a bit more nuance.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#943

Post by furyofantares »

woooooo wrote: post #892
Nextgrid wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are under daily attack from Russian accounts We would go a long way if our communication platforms weren't intentionally amplifying the most controversial voices for the sake of maximizing ad revenue. Back in the day the Russians needed to spend money to buy influence. Now they can just make their propaganda engaging enough and Western companies will happily host it and promote it for free .

Isn't that just "culture"? Let the best content win? It used to be that the USA was comfortable competing and winning along these lines.

If you tautologically define "best" as "that which wins", sure.

There's many ways for something to be better than another thing, though, and a lot of stuff is winning because it's best at "engagement" even if it's really bad in many other ways.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#944

Post by saubeidl »

TylerLives wrote: post #935
saubeidl wrote: post #918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the solution is to elect a commission of experts to be deciding this. Term limits. Separate independent institution from the government - no meddling. Critical thinking even in those capable of it is a limited resource. I can't spend all day every day critically examining every single statement the internet flings at me - it's mentally exhausting and wears one down. Let's elect proxies to do it for us.

And who will watch the watchdogs?

The electorate.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#945

Post by troyvit »

mlrtime wrote: post #818
troyvit wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said this: > In the meantime, we remain happy to discuss this with Italian government officials who, so far, have been unwilling to engage beyond issuing fines. which, although his rant really pisses me off, further proves your point.

Curious, why does his rant piss you off?

I've had the pleasure of working for CEOs who don't resort to public threats (or all caps) to get their point across. When I chose who leads me or who I work with stability and consistency are key. This just sounds like a man who thinks he can flex his way out of a problem and that is just such a short sited way to solve problems. Not my kind of CEO.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#946

Post by troyvit »

whatthesmack wrote: post #822
DangitBobby wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does his rant piss you off?

Likely because it mentions JD Vance and the current US administration in a positive light, since they have rightly shone a bright light on the active decline of free speech in Europe.

Thanks for answering for me but you got it wrong. Believe it or not other people can be as nuanced as the CEO of Cloudflare.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#947

Post by azangru »

pornel wrote: post #933
azangru wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact he's posting on X to begin with is a warning in itself. Why so? The counter at the bottom of the post claims that it has been viewed 7.5 million times. I don't know how this translates into individual people; but still, probably a decent reach?

It's not about reach, but about not seeing a problem in being a member of Elon Musk's website.

People are there for reach. Politicians, celebrities. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Kaja Kallas, Ursula von der Leyen... If they don't see a problem, why should the Cloudflare CEO?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#948

Post by JumpCrisscross »

furyofantares wrote: post #943
woooooo wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that just "culture"? Let the best content win? It used to be that the USA was comfortable competing and winning along these lines.

If you tautologically define "best" as "that which wins", sure. There's many ways for something to be better than another thing, though, and a lot of stuff is winning because it's best at "engagement" even if it's really bad in many other ways.

> If you tautologically define "best" as "that which wins", sure

Spot on. By OP’s metric, we should shift all agricultural and pharmaceutical production to heroin.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#949

Post by toyg »

yorwba wrote: post #692
petre wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a fan of Cloudfare but why should it be responsible for providing pro bono services to the Italian government during the winter olympics? If one gets drunk at the pub and threatens the staff after being served free drinks, they get thrown out. Why should this be any different? In Spain they also have similar laws made specifically for UEFA and the broadcasters' mafia.

The services aren't pro bono if they're only offered in exchange for getting a law modified. And if you offer people free stuff and then turn around and demand something in return, they're going to get upset and like you less than if you had never offered the free stuff in the first place.

There was no exchange implied... before this sentence. Cloudflare might well be justified in feeling that the other side altered the deal, so to speak.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#950

Post by Barrin92 »

lucianbr wrote: post #888
vouwfietsman wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself. No you can't, all of this stuff is designed to influence you without you knowing it, or you would not be influenced. This is like thinking advertisements have no effect on you. People pay good money because they know it is effective, it is influencing you, you cannot decide for yourself.

So who gets to decide? Someone who is above influence? Who is that? There has to be a lot more nuance. I clearly see that both Putin and the CCP do a lot of things predicated on the exact claim that their respective populations can not be left to decide for themselves. "People left free would make bad decisions, we the rulers are morally obligated to force them into a good path". I think this is the ostensible meanin…

There has to be nuance yes. But the nuanced position starts with accepting the reality that a ton of people are indeed having their brain turned to goo. Just go outside of the bubble of somewhat tech literate highly educated young people and look at what 60+ year olds consume on Facebook.

There's AI generated content with tens of millions of views that is as fake as ancient aliens on the history channel but nobody seems to realize it. If you comment here there is a high chance you did not grow up among people with 8 years of basic education who haven't read a book in 20 years and believe quite literally everything they see. That is what a decent chunk of any population is like. The biggest blind spot of well-educated internet libertarians who taught themselves how to code at 15 is that they in all likelihood have no concept of how the average citizen navigates the world.

The problem with Putin isn't that he thinks a country needs intelligent and wise leaders, Plato would have told you the same thing. It's where he's steering it that's the issue and that the country's leadership is no more capable at the top than it is at the bottom.

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