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Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

reuters.com

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Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#941

Post by rifty »

geoka9 wrote: post #799

> "We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition" How do you run a country without invading it or at least having a puppet regime already in place?

This part of the situation is the interesting thing to me.

Is this US administration establishing itself as the effective dictator of Venezuela indefinitely? What does running that country have to look like directed by the US president and what changes will they make to restrict the position to prepare it for transition? Is the plan to make no changes to the position and then forever make a mockery of their elections by only letting people run in the future who suite US interests? It feels like this situation has the potential to turn into a colonial-like relationship always under threat of direct US military intervention.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#943

Post by randyrand »

boramalper wrote: post #344

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Regardless of your opinion on Maduro, you can still acknowledge that the head of a sovereign state being captured in an unannounced/unnamed military operation by a superpower is wrong from a principled standpoint, and that it’s destabilising a country with 30+ million people if not the entire region.

If he committed crimes against the USA, it shouldn’t really matter what his title is. The USA has a duty to uphold its laws.

The EU does the same. Putin has a warrant for his arrest in every EU country, and they are legally allowed to extract him from russia AFAIK.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#944

Post by johnnyanmac »

ofalkaed wrote: post #345

I just spent way too much time reading through this thread looking for a single post more concerned about Venezuela and its people than the poster's own politics. I gave up when I noticed I was only a 1/4 of the way through thread, should have started from the bottom.

To be blunt, I simply don't have much more than the default respect for Venezuela as a country and fellow human beings. I have no special sentiment to provide in that regard. This is destructive, I hate that more innocent lives are lost over this, etc. I can't speak intimately to its culture, norms, attitudes, nor economics. So I won't talk on ignorant grounds.

Meanwhile, I hold disdain for my country's actions and have some minimal pull to at least protest and complain to my reps about it. So the focus of my discussion will be around those actions.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#945

Post by toomanyrichies »

"Overthrowing a dictator sounds morally right. No one mourns a tyrant. But international law wasn't built to protect the good, but to restrain the powerful. That's why it prohibits force almost without exception: not because it ignores injustice, but because it knows that if each country decides whom to 'liberate' by force, the world reverts to the law of the strongest.

The problem is not Maduro. The problem is the precedent. When military force is used to change governments without clear rules, sovereignty ceases to be a limit and becomes an obstacle. Today it is 'overthrowing a dictator'; tomorrow it will be 'correcting an election', 'protecting interests', 'restoring order'. The law does not absolve dictatorships, but neither does it legitimize unilateral crusades.

The uncomfortable question is not whether a tyrant deserves to fall, but who decides when and how. Because history teaches something brutal: removing a dictator is easy; building justice afterward is not. And when legality is broken in the name of good, what almost always follows is not freedom, but chaos, violence, and new victims. The law exists to remind us of this, even when it makes us uncomfortable."

-Jose Mario

https://bsky.app/profile/cristianfarias.com/post/3mbjlwkmb6c...

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#946

Post by hexbin010 »

whoisthemachine wrote: post #864

If you're ever confused by Don's actions, just remember: all he cares about is gaining more wealth (and power if possible). This was done to enrich Don and the oil barons who funded his campaign. [0] https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/09/trump-asks-oil-exec...

Do people struggle with the concept that an old ruthless businessman continues to be a ruthless businessman?

I don't remember him setting up a foundation and giving away all his money and assets prior to getting into office!

Though I don't like it as explanation or topic as it ventures into "it's just business" and "business as usual" in a way that normalises it

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#947

Post by AbraKdabra »

All your "moral" comments don't matter, I live in Argentina and the ABSURD amount of venezuelans that migrated here in the last 10/15 years is nothing you'll ever see. I have 3 venezuelan friends here and a couple more that I only know (one is an Uber I once took and have a couple neighbors in the building), all were able to escape the dictatorship and left their family there, I just can't express with words the JOY I saw in their statuses from WhatsApp and Instagram today when the door to maybe go back to their country finally opened.

One of my friends is my motorcycle mechanic, met him in 2015 when I bought my first KTM, still my mechanic to this day. A lot of the bike services I stayed with him talking while he worked, I listened to a lot of his stories from back in the day, why he had to run, why his family stayed, how he had to send money to them to eat and some other horror stories.

In the name of my friends, if you think what happened today is bad, you can respectfully go fuck yourself.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#948

Post by PlanksVariable »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #945

"Overthrowing a dictator sounds morally right. No one mourns a tyrant. But international law wasn't built to protect the good, but to restrain the powerful. That's why it prohibits force almost without exception: not because it ignores injustice, but because it knows that if each country decides whom to 'liberate' by force, the world reverts to the law of the strongest. The problem is not Maduro. The problem is the p…

It’s estimated there are over a million Venezuelans in the U.S. who fled the country. Over 600,000 are currently under temporary protected status with asylum claims. 7 million in neighboring countries.

Who gets to decide that this is good, but removing the dictator behind this is bad? Who gets to decide that we must live with this chaos because taking action might not reduce the chaos.

> Today it is 'overthrowing a dictator'; tomorrow it will be 'correcting an election'

Why? Those are two completely different things. We have the capacity to evaluate whether overthrowing a dictator is good or bad on its own terms.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#950

Post by PlanksVariable »

boramalper wrote: post #344

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Regardless of your opinion on Maduro, you can still acknowledge that the head of a sovereign state being captured in an unannounced/unnamed military operation by a superpower is wrong from a principled standpoint, and that it’s destabilising a country with 30+ million people if not the entire region.

I do not acknowledge that. If you want to make an argument that overthrowing a dictator is always wrong on principle, go ahead. But I will not accept this as axiomatic.

Claiming this could “destabilize” the country suggests that the country is stable. It’s not.

You mention the 30+ million people who live there, under the dictatorship, but ignore the 8+ million who have fled the country in recent years and the instability that has unleashed on country and the entire region.

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