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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#941

Post by sneak »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #928
sneak wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough with this “known terrorist” nonsense. Verbally expressing support for terrorist groups is still protected speech.

It's protected speech if you're a citizen, but it's not clear to me that non-citizens, especially when they're at the border rather than within the country, would be so-protected.

Aren’t we talking about a green card holder who is a resident here, specifically, in this sub thread?

sorcerer-ma’s comment made it sound like we are speaking of Mahmoud Khalil and others.

I am under the impression that the settled law is that 1A applies to everyone physically present in the country.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#942

Post by imoverclocked »

iAMkenough wrote: post #898
imoverclocked wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing the inability for dissent as normal. In fact, it's considered an international human right. Despite it also being in our constitution, the Trump Administration's actions resemble your comment closely.

I don't disagree. It's where we've ended up, and I don't see any viable solutions to the problem.

Arguably, this is part of the intent. It’s important to see through/past it even if for nothing else than your own personal sanity. Personally, I have found a lot of comfort in local protests; There are a lot of people who really don’t want this regime to stick around.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#943

Post by mizzao »

nitwit005 wrote: post #917
ithkuil wrote: post #242

The us government, using the appropriate mechanism like passing laws etc, can change the policies like they see fit. However I don't understand how it's possible to single out a specific university. Are there precedents for this kind of behaviour?

You seem to be assuming they're following the law. The Trump admin hasn't exactly been winning in court.

Does it really matter if court orders/judgments can't be enforced and they can just ignore them?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#944

Post by mizzao »

kurtis_reed wrote: post #352
daedrdev wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite literally the appeal to tradition or inertia fallacy. Just because they've been around for a while does not mean they are not facing an existential threat. Every structure humans create will one day collapse. This certainly looks difficult for Harvard and could be their end because there is no divine protection, only the decision that will be made by an extremely conservative Supreme Court and the willi…

Things that have been around for a long time are the ones most likely to continue to exist, it's not a fallacy.

Lehman Brothers

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#945

Post by s1artibartfast »

consumer451 wrote: post #745
tstrimple wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did things get so bad, so quickly? It didn't. Conservatives in this country have explicitly been headed this direction since they decided to never let another Nixon happen. Not that they would prevent another criminal Republican. But they would ensure that Republicans are never punished for behavior like this. It led to Fox News and Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson, etc. The writing has been on the…

I believe that this is entirely the correct answer. If anyone has any counterarguments, I would genuinely love to read them.

I think it is a product of raising stakes as wall between the public sphere and government control collapses.

Norms around free speech and free behavior been eroding for decades. Now that they are gone, each side sees it as an existential struggle. In an existential struggle, it makes sense to sacrifice any values you had because the alternative is worse.

e.g. if there is going to be a oppressive government, you want one that will oppressive others for your benefit.

e.g. even if you don't want a race war, if you are convinced will be one, you want your side to win.

You see similar situations in national wars (strike first before they strike you), or prisoners dilemma where both parities defect.

Society at large is an unstable solution to the prisoners dilemma built on trust.

IMO we got here from erosion of trust in government and society in general.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#946

Post by tenuousemphasis »

scrubs wrote: post #594
Hilift wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, getting things done with prestige connections, domestically and internationally. And the international diplomatic goodwill What you describe is relatively recent development of US foreign policy. In 1959, John F. Kennedy purchased a copy of The Ugly American for all of his fellow US Senators. After Kennedy was elected, many foreign service programs were initiated to leverage soft power. That was JFK's…

Much thanks for the jfk link. New info. Interesting info to me at least. I will add a little nuance or my take. Balance as always is key. Toxic feminity or hopes/prayers/empathy holism alone is hardly an answer. Would it kill the dems to get some street smarts? No!

I know what toxic masculinity is, but what is toxic femininity?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#947

Post by FilosofumRex »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #877
rayiner wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I actually think indoctrinating their children in western human liberalism -is- a feature. But whether it’s a feature or a flaw, it’s an aspect of having the best brand on earth that those with the most money aspire to it. If you’re in an African country Harvard degrees are extremely prestigious, more so than in America, so the drive to attain it is even greater - even if it’s largely limited to the wealthy. But not…

> You are either there because you’re exceptional or exceptionally rich.

Or a certain skin color known for their personality... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-universities-p...

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#948

Post by eli_gottlieb »

nagaiaida wrote: post #825
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're beheading like 50% of the S&P my friend... And that's why we call it MAGA Maoism.

rather than say anything likely unconstructive myself in direct response to this, i would very much like to see you elaborate on your understanding of mao and what value and predictive power you find in this comparison.

Maoism and Trumpism share a certain self-sabotaging ideological fetish for the virtues of rural life that expresses itself politically more in destructive resentment of urbanites and urban institutions than productive development of rural ones.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#949

Post by raincom »

alephnerd wrote: post #289
Jtsummers wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dartmouth is a smaller target without the name recognition of Harvard, and MIT has stronger ties to the MIC without the strong public image of a liberal institution. Harvard is a test case (what can this admin do) and a symbol almost in its own category for Trump's followers.

Harvard (the University, not it's alums) has had a near nil presence on K-Street for a looooong time - and their primary lobbyist with the GOP has been on Trump's bad side for sometime after he pissed off David Sacks. I'm also an (severely disillusioned) alumni of some of the student orgs that are mutually using Harvard the institution as a punching bag to fight their culture wars. A lot of this is honestly very chil…

Sorry to ask, who is "their primary lobbyist with the GOP"?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#950

Post by remarkEon »

causal wrote: post #848
remarkEon wrote: post #752

Ctrl + F "Yarvin" only returns one comment. Kind of surprised, neutering Harvard's power has been one of that guy's main objectives for what feels like, well, forever at this point. He finally has his man.

I've tried to avoid going down that rabbit hole but I'm curious, why has that been such a big objective for Yarvin?

I haven't read everything he's written (who has?) but my take on the literature tells me Harvard is a stand-in for his "Cathedral", and so degrading its power and influence would be a worthy goal for his political project. Take that with a grain of salt, it's been a few years since I actually engaged with what he writes. Though, I should probably try again since NYT did interview him recently. His style is just hard to deal with. It's like Rushdie, in a way, where you need a deep understanding of whatever it is he's talking about for the metaphors to make sense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-in...

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