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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#941

Post by anigbrowl »

jasmer wrote: post #907
anigbrowl wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. I don't want to live in a permission society where I have to submit to inspection to do anything. If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. I don't like that either and some years ago I stopped providing my ID on request. Corporate vendors (eg supermarkets) still insist on asking my birthdate. I'm in my 50s. Paternalistic attitudes infantiliz…

"Paternalistic attitudes infantilize society" It's not 'paternalistic' to require people to pass a driving exam, or gasp, do a safety test to buy a gun. This pseudo-liberatrian crap is the most toxic part of HN, and frankly what is 'infantile'. I have a number of nephews and nieces now and completely emphasize with my brothers and sisters who don't want to allow you and others to infect their kids with your supposed…

I'm not saying that there should no regulations, or anything even remotely like that. I'm saying that I object to having to ask people for permission to do the most quotidian low-harm things that people have been doing for millennia before this country was even founded.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#942

Post by friend_and_foe »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #927
friend_and_foe wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What laws would those be exactly?

polygamy? Take a moment to think about history of US statehood. The Mormons, chased off Eastern settlements for their polygamy, settled most of the mountain West, declared governance, then watched big mining operations all around them get cut off from their territory and turned into full-fledged states, while they were not admitted to the union for decades. It was a time of shared culture that is unrecognizable from…

Polygamy was federally outlawed precisely for the purpose of (dare I say) oppressing Mormons. It was not the law of the land until well after the migration to Deseret and the first attempt at statehood.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#943

Post by friend_and_foe »

cogitoergofutuo wrote: post #936
friend_and_foe wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What laws would those be exactly?

https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp

> Violence broke out in 1833 as the “Old Settlers” under the guise of “extra-legal” justice took the law into their own hands.

I'm seeing no mention of Mormons breaking laws, the only mentions of law breaking references other people breaking laws to persecute Mormons. The governor of Missouri's declares that they are to be expelled or exterminated (!!!), the mobs attacked them and killed them, no mention anywhere in your link of Mormons breaking any laws.

Note that I do not take the position that Mormons broke no laws, I'd just like to know what laws they broke, and particularly what federal laws they broke, since my reply is to the claim that they broke American laws and not of some specific state.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#944

Post by formerly_proven »

jasmer wrote: post #907
anigbrowl wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. I don't want to live in a permission society where I have to submit to inspection to do anything. If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. I don't like that either and some years ago I stopped providing my ID on request. Corporate vendors (eg supermarkets) still insist on asking my birthdate. I'm in my 50s. Paternalistic attitudes infantiliz…

"Paternalistic attitudes infantilize society" It's not 'paternalistic' to require people to pass a driving exam, or gasp, do a safety test to buy a gun. This pseudo-liberatrian crap is the most toxic part of HN, and frankly what is 'infantile'. I have a number of nephews and nieces now and completely emphasize with my brothers and sisters who don't want to allow you and others to infect their kids with your supposed…

> At minimum parents should have choice.

Parents absolutely have a choice and always had it. They can always enable the adult filter in their internet box or on the devices they give to their children. Expecting the whole internet to implement sound age verification because they can't be bothered to do such a simple thing and instead need the state to nanny the other 80% of the population - that's actually infantile.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#945

Post by formerly_proven »

Mindwipe wrote: post #567
brightball wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

> What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? a) It's economically implausible. Age verification is very expensive, and the requirement means that many sites that currently permit adult content will ban it rather than pay for verification (Twitter bans sex workers in Germany rather than pay for verification). b) It doesn't work…

OTOH what actually does work is to not give your 8yo kids unfettered and unsupervised 24/7 internet access, but the comments here whenever this topic comes up would suggest that's far too much to ask of HN parents, nevermind the average parent.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#946

Post by Georgelemental »

cmh89 wrote: post #923
Georgelemental wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The porn did not "relieve" anything, it was the source of the problem.

That's like saying 'sleeping too much is the source of depression'. Viewing too much porn is a result of a different problem. Happy and healthy people aren't accidentally becoming addicted to porn.

Happy and healthy people don't usually become addicted to heroin either.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#947

Post by theclansman »

honkycat wrote: post #378
theclansman wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The porn industry exploits vulnerable women and ruins their lives, forces them to do stuff they never signed for and much more. You trying to paint this issue as a white and black political thing makes you dismiss all the victims from this industry. You're basically dismissing it as "if you're part of this specific political team you should support/be against this"

Yes and you pointing out victimization in the industry, a lot of which stems from the industry's "black sheep" status, also paints the issue as black and white.

I'm not doing that, I'm pointing out that when you say only the most extreme conservatives are against porn you're giving your back to all the people that have been affected by this. Saying "not all porn companies do that" is meaningless in this case, because there are good enough reasons to be against porn that don't have anything to do with religion.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#948

Post by raxxorraxor »

jasmer wrote: post #908
gnicholas wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase you anymore than verifying your age to buy alcohol. If the cashier asks for your ID when you buy a six-pack, that's completely ephemeral, with no record created. If they swipe your ID (I think this happens sometimes), that creates a record, but it's not clear if it stores personal info or just verifies that it's a valid ID with appropriate birthdate. If…

"there's no way to do so ephemerally, " - there are ways people can be issued anonymous tokens, 3rd party verifications, regs against recording the data with strong regulatory authority. Frankly, it's not even that hard you could come up with 3 'good ways' just by thinking about it a tiny bit, that would be less intrusive than showing your ID at a bar. Trade this for getting the drinking age lowered to 18 and we win.

There is a technical possibility to do that. There is also a technical possibility to leak identities.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#949

Post by yawboakye »

Retric wrote: post #702
defen wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone makes an appeal to tradition/history, I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that they're advocating for things which happened 4,000 years ago in a society completely alien to our own.

That’s fair, but if there argument is “At basically no point in history…” it is reasonable to mention that they are mistaken in that belief and the reverse was true for most of recorded history. Which doesn’t mean I disagree with them, just that their argument isn’t sound. Slavery was also depressingly common and I am glad it’s become vastly less common today.

the weakness of his argument is that he didn't restrict himself to a certain people's history. the hammurabi code you cite wasn't the universal law, and only applied to subjects of hammurabi. savages live in groups and share all sorts of responsibilities (see edward burnett tylor's primitive cultures vol. 1 & 2). which gives some weight to his original assertion.

generally, human civilization is us picking and choosing sensible/humane parts of cultures we encounter. the romans who conquered greece were of barbarian culture, only civilized by their adoption of the greek culture, which they later spread to parts of the world the conquered. the greeks remained uncivilized for a long time as well. they attribute most of their development to encounters with egyptians and babylonians. thus, it's almost possible to see a primitive culture that upheld some of the core values of our civilization today: human rights (not too far back but pericle's athens abolished slave trade), etc.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#950

Post by tristor »

selcuka wrote: post #920
tristor wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again. I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 countries, and have spent years of my life living abroad. The United States is far more diverse and heterogeneous than most other countries in the world, contrary to your statements. Some subsets of the US are regionally /very/ homogeneous, however, which is part of…

> Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 Al-Nisa 4:3 literally says: > Each man may marry two or three or four but do not exceed this I'm not sure if this counts as a heavy restriction. > [...] or restrict yourself to what your right hands own of slavegirls since these do not have the same rights as wives It also allows having an infinite number of slavegirls.

This is open to interpretation, but the reading I've always heard for this passage is it is intended to restrict polygamy except in the case in which you are marrying orphan girls.

"If you fear you might fail to give orphan women their ˹due˺ rights ˹if you were to marry them˺, then marry other women of your choice—two, three, or four. But if you are afraid you will fail to maintain justice, then ˹content yourselves with˺ one1 or those ˹bondwomen˺ in your possession.2 This way you are less likely to commit injustice."

The reason I said passage 4:129 gives context is that it says

"You will never be able to maintain ˹emotional˺ justice between your wives—no matter how keen you are. So do not totally incline towards one leaving the other in suspense.1 And if you do what is right and are mindful ˹of Allah˺, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

The interpretation I've heard is that while the Quran does not forbid polygamy, it restricts it by stating that it is required that you maintain equality between your wives and do not raise one above another, but advises that this is often impossible, so it is best to only have a single wife, and further that it is advised only to marry more than one wife in the case that you are marrying orphan girls.

I am not Muslim, I am not a religious scholar, however I have read the major religious works of all of the major religions and some experts opinions of them, and this is my understanding. You may not consider this a "restriction", it's certainly rather loose, but it's been my interpretation that the Quran does not outright endorse unrestricted polygamy, it is allowed only in specific circumstances (orphanage), and advised against.

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