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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#941
post #828
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit user TPKM's comment on the sanders-would-have-won-thread: "Support for Trump, much like Brexit, was based upon an extremely widespread feeling that average people are not getting their fair share of the benefits of globalisation. This is neither a specifically Democrat or Republican problem, and people have been saying it one way or another for years. It was also the foundation of Sanders' campaign. The differ…

> while Trump blamed immigration and open borders He also blamed the tax code, claiming many times to have taken advantage of it, and boasting of paying insanely low taxes on his businesses. This was seen as horrible by a lot of the left in this country - proof that "he doesn't want to shoulder his fair share of the burden"- but served as evidence to what a lot of middle America has suspected for years, that the tax…

Trump won despite his status as a corporate tycoon because the people basically believe he's a double-agent. A corporate tycoon born with the heart of a worker. I think there's an argument that could be made there: Trump has a long history of being looked down upon by high society.

Trump's also credible, because as someone whose attempted many different lines of business, he's seen what it takes to be competitive, and as someone with the heart of a worker, he didn't like it and wanted to even the playing field.

Trump is the epitome of "Don't hate the player, hate the game". Trump was in a very unique position, shared perhaps only by a few dozen other living souls, to see the game, hate it, and be able to make a credible attempt to fix it.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#942
post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system tha…

> The people getting more than they put in are parasites; the people getting less than they put in are suckers. You're describing the same people at different stages in their lives.

Nope.

Some people are parasites over the course of their lives.

Others are suckers over the course of their lives.

Very few make the transition from one to the other, except that as a general rule the young suckers get screwed even harder.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system tha…

"The people getting more than they put in are parasites; the people getting less than they put in are suckers. When you don't pay for your own healthcare, you don't care how much it costs. Go to any veterinarian's office to see the cost of medicine in a free market." These are all problems with any system of insurance that involves risk pooling and are not unique to PPACA's reforms.

Indeed. "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need," doesn't work.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#944
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a Trump supporter, and this post largely echoes my reasoning. >I refuse to believe that close to half of this country hates people of color It's been confirmed that many pro Obama counties have turned pro Trump this election cycle. Clearly not racists.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but it has been really frustrating to watch the Buzzfeed crowd paint all Trump supporters as misogynist racists. My facebook feed has been loaded with articles about how white men failed the feminist movement and all sorts of other crap that misses the point. I thinks Trumps popularity is best explained by saying that people are sick and tired of politics as usual. It's really not because h…

I can see how people might think of Trump supporters as misogynist racists. Some people have argued that it is taking things out of context, but every time I look the context is worst than I imagined.

He denies rape by saying the accuser is too ugly to rape. (Would he rape if she were cute?)

He seems to think that "grabbing women by the pussy" is a good thing. Most politicians I'd give a pass on an event like this - it happened a long time ago, and most politicians would disclaim such behavior (compare Clinton's response to her email server during the debates).

He accuses a judge of not being able to do his job because he is "from Mexico", even though said judge was born as an American.

He attacks (seemingly) muslims at Hillary's DNC speech - for reasons I'm not entirely certain why.

So I think that there are a few options: you are either saying Trumps sexism and racism is worth it for his other qualities, or blatantly ignoring it, or actively supporting it. To me it's not hard to see how people would come to the conclusion that people are actively supporting it, because for a lot of people that is an issue that would trump other issues (bad pun not intended but now that it's there I'm leaving it).

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#945

Many here will recognise the formative childhood experience of having done something forbidden and getting caught doing it by their parents where, for the first time, instead of the usual response - their getting angry - you are taken completely by surprise when they simply say "I am so disappointed in you" or similar, accompanied by some expression in the realm of abject futility. This is one of those. That this cou…

[deleted]

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#946

I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. Trump won on a mountain of fake issues: Immigration: both conservative and liberal economists agree that immigration (illegal or otherwise) does not suppress wages and does not suppress job growth. https://www.cato.org/research/immigration http://business.time.com/201…

What do you mean by "fake" issues? Do you mean "issues where there is no disagreement" or "issues where I don't perceive any reasonable disagreement"? The former is a reasonable definition of fake issues, so that's the one I'll use.

> Immigration

If conservative and liberal economists agree, then this is the only issue that qualifies as "fake" by the above definition I mentioned. However, I don't think that the Cato position represents a right-wing consensus.

> Terrorism

You're not employing the statistics you cited correctly. First, terrorist attacks are black swans[0]. Saying that terrorism killed very few this year or even past ten years is misleading at best. Second, most of those firearm deaths are suicides. Certainly sad and need to be addressed, but also dishonest to compare directly against terrorist attacks and using the word "deaths" to obscure the difference between suicide and murder rates.

> Gay Marriage

May be clear cut to you, but is still contentious within the broader population and therefore not a fake issue. Also, there has certainly been conflicts with freedom of association. You can claim that restricting those rights is worth it, but you cannot claim they are not being restricted. There's also plenty to criticize in the legal reasoning behind the supreme court ruling.

> Bathrooms

Who uses what bathroom has largely been a matter of culture and custom. You can claim that such customs are wrong and need to be changed, but if you mandate that change through law and you are going to have a bad time.

> Obamacare

Not a fake issue.

[0]http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/31/terrorists-vs-chairs-an...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#947

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

Trump is for cutting taxes and spending, so how would he re-educate the workforce and make sure they get decent skills? His party is the same, they don't want to help anybody except the rich and profitable corporations who fund their campaigns, and want you to just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and work harder.

The Republicans were part of Congress' gleeful global corporate sell-out, and support international corporations getting more tax cuts and handing out jobs to the cheapest people in other countries even more than the Democrats do; the only things both parties can agree on are more war and more money to the rich and corporations at the expense of the worker.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#948
post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system tha…

> Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. Please elaborate.

Certainly.

Man's marriage vows: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and worship, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.

Wife's marriage vows: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.

Marriage was a lifelong contract between a man and a woman for the purpose of producing healthy, well-adjusted children in a stable family unit. Lifelong means "till death do us part". If it isn't lifelong, it isn't marriage. Also note the woman's vow to obey.

Plus, marriage used to involve virgin brides. The man would marry to get access to a woman he would not have otherwise had access to, both for sexual gratification and for sexual reproduction.

If one cannot enforce one's marriage contract, and one and possibly many others have fucked one's wife-to-be before marriage, then what exactly is the difference between a marriage and a casual LTR?

Protesting homosexual marriage after one accepts the destruction of heterosexual marriage is probably the dumbest thing any conservative ever does.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#949

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

There's a reason cities vote the way they do... Cities are terrible places of hate and murder and disenfranchisement...

Well, you're right they are places of disenfranchisement. We had one party this week work to make sure polling places in the city would have the longest waiting times they could get away with.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system tha…

Do you directly pay for your roads? Do you care how much it cost?

How much of the government budget goes to roads?
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