Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It always boggles my mind that most Europeans are absolutely convinced that nothing like that could ever happen again. It’s not that it cannot happen again. It’s that the EU is explicitly built against that and if it happens it will come from the national governments (see Hungary), not the EU.
> it will come from the national governments (see Hungary), not the EU. what's the difference? The EU relies on national gov't to enforce rules. Until the EU becomes a sovereign entity with standalone enforcement mechanisms, it's no more able to ensure things can't happen than the UN.
Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
931–940 of 1001 posts
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#932Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It always boggles my mind that most Europeans are absolutely convinced that nothing like that could ever happen again. It’s not that it cannot happen again. It’s that the EU is explicitly built against that and if it happens it will come from the national governments (see Hungary), not the EU.
Maybe in theory, but the idea that nations that trade doesn’t go to war is a naive one, it has happened plenty and will happen again. As for the structure of voting etc, it’s just a matter of pushing until people give up.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#933Earlier quoted context omitted.
These regulations were the reason that American Express pulled out of various European markets (but not all) as it became less/not profitable for them to issue their cards in those markets.
Completely false. They don't apply to 3-party systems.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#934Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most Americans with the means to travel also have access to credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate. There's still an ongoing trick that some European businesses do where they'll try and get you to pay in dollars because they can arbitrarily set the exchange rate. It's obviously within "reason" but on the higher end for no purpose other tha…
> credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate. I’d be interested to compare their rates to Wise. The credit cards here in New Zealand don’t come close. However we regularly get screwed down here, and sadly it’s not just foreign companies that do it.
Well for US-based "no foreign transaction fees" credit cards the rate is 0. There's no additional fee. For cards with foreign transaction fees you'll see something like 1% that goes to Visa/Mastercard/whoever and then the bank will charge a fee too, typically a percent or two.
But that's one thing, and then you have the actual currency conversion rates. I found an excerpt from an article that I think explains it well enough [1].
"Typically, a purchase at a foreign merchant is made entirely in the local currency. The cardholder authorizes the purchase amount in the local currency, and the purchase price is not converted until the payment is processed.
When you make a purchase at an international store, you may be asked if you want to convert your purchase to your home currency. This service is provided at the point of sale as a value added service and allows you to know the converted price at that moment—but don’t be fooled; it comes at a cost.
While this may initially sound like a wise way to avoid fees, these charges are in addition to any foreign transaction fees your card may apply. These fees assessed by the merchant at the point of sale are called dynamic currency conversion or DCC. You can think of DCC as an added service and just like most services that make life easier, there’s a convenience charge. Plus, even when using DCC, you’ll usually be charged a foreign transaction fee by your card issuing bank unless your card has no foreign transaction fees."
tl;dr version is, at least for an American, get a "no foreign transaction fees" credit card and save 1%-3% on all transactions you may otherwise be charged a fee for, and if prompted by a local shop to exchange currency, don't, just pay in the local currency so they can't dishonestly set arbitrarily high exchange rates. Visa and Mastercard (among others) as mentioned in the article have better negotiated exchange rates so it's better to let them do any exchange that's needed to keep costs to a minimum.[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/credit-cards/foreign-transact...
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#935Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was there when this started to roll this out - I remember a lot of nice pine labs payment terminals - it was really nice that I could begin to depend on my American Express card there more than trying to finagle cash (2000inr bills get you a lot of frustrated service workers). I say AmEx because they tended to work much better than my visa there.
That’s how all my non resident friends pay. They have chase bofa discover Amex etc cards that they use to pay most places. Ease of payments is the catch and credit cards bring that process down a lot. There is something psychological going on with cards that UPI and ApplePay simply don’t have. Swiping probably was fastest.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#936Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU consists of 27 different countries, with substantial practical barriers between their internal markets (even if it's one single market in theory). Often, only EU intervention can overcome those barriers. Otherwise, you end up with national fragmentation.
Solve the problem and people will come. I don't see which problem Wero is solving. Cross country p2p money transfers? Not something people do often.
What is needed is a card for online shopping that is valid in all Europe.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#937Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. I don't know that the problem is sophisticated, but it's certainly complex [1]. It's a bit of both in terms of complexity and defending a moat, which all businesses do, including, and especially European ones. And companies like Visa, Mastercard, Ame…
> And companies like Visa, Mastercard, American Express, &c. arose initially from solving a real need. Before these companies came into existence when you traveled you'd have to take cash, or traveler's checks or some other nonsense. Today you can, at least as an American, just walk in to the subway in just about any country and tap to pay. Need a coffee at Mt. Fuji? Easy. Buying a bottle of Calvados in some remote a…
I agree the reality is a bit more complicated and even wrote about it in France when dealing with gas stations but what I wrote is broadly true. You can just take a credit card to Europe and the vast majority of the time you just won't need cash. I also agree it's a good idea to have a couple of cards though and maybe your debit card too. Frankly I do this in the US as well, and not just when traveling abroad.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#938Earlier quoted context omitted.
Solve the problem and people will come. I don't see which problem Wero is solving. Cross country p2p money transfers? Not something people do often.
What people in Europe do very frequently is buying from online shops of another country, either because they do not find the product in a local shop or because of better prices. What is needed is a card for online shopping that is valid in all Europe.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#939Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also ATMs from Euronet that are conveniently placed in tourist areas that refuses to pay out Euro if you have a Euro card, you can only get money if you do an exchange and they do a 15% or so on top of a fixed rate. Also do things like charge for checking balance on account and don't tell you about before its done. Its an American company.
> Its an American company. Thankfully though a lot of times these ATMs and such are avoided by American tourists because....we just use a credit card. By the way, those fees are split with other folks. For example you might find that American Euronext ATM in a shopping plaza or outside of a storefront. Those European businesses are getting a cut of that exchange rate.
Doesn't really help if they only take cash, which is still common in Germany for example, but gotten a lot better in the last decade.
Ok so the scam is shared, great.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#940Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Hotels require credit cards for three reasons >Can you provide the name of a single hotel in Europe that doesn't take credit cards? Holy goalpost.
How is this a goalpost shift? The person I was responding to seems to think it's only tourist and chain hotels that accept credit cards. Show me a hotel in Europe that doesn't. Stop trying to associate credit card usage with foreign tourism in a negative light.
>take