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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#761

Post by pjc50 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #759
pjc50 wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013. I have some concerns about process, but not for these guys. People working for enemy intelligence services tend to get treated harshly.

>Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013. Is he not still a French born citizen deserving of a fair trial? Or should getting a dual citizenship of a foreign passport, of a nation that later becomes an adversary, become an automatic death sentence? US should then put all it citizens with Cuban and Iranian passports in jail with that logic. And then what about Jacques BAUD who's Swiss living…

This isn't a death sentence? But they probably do deserve legal redress. And jail sentences.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#762

Post by StingyJelly »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #353

Whenever people say Bitcoin has no usecase, this is exactly my usecase. Of course, only in conjunction with Lightning (a layer 2 solution building on Bitcoin with anonymity and instant transaction settlement). Censorship-free, no relying on third parties, free and open source software to make and receive payments. Yes, I know, bitcoin is too volatile. The reason that it is volatile, is because it has almost no adopti…

Too bad Europe does everything it can to make it inconvenient. In the beginning of this year, when confirmo was finally getting popular, they banned european shops from using it.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#763

Post by vidarh »

wiether wrote: post #229
vidarh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are numerous credit providers in Europe that would beg to differ. By December 2025, consumer credit in the Euro area alone stood at an estimated €812 billion.

Are you talking about the same thing? Sure, in Europe people will subscribe to a credit to buy a car or materials to improve their home. But buying your groceries or lunch with a credit card is quite a rare exception.

There is a significant amount both in credit card debt, buy-now-pay-later type offerings (e.g. Klarna), and payday loans - it's by no means all larger loans.

It also varies greatly by country, but all major European countries still have significant credit card (not consumer, so excluding e.g. car loans) debt, with the most "credit willing" countries like the UK reaching around 1/3 the US average credit card balance (but you'd also want to adjust for average salaries before comparing these). There is no single attitude to this across Europe.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#765

Post by IvanK_net »

It should be enough to make it mandatory for banks to let people send money to each other for free, even abroad (within the EU). Then, at the shop, you can simply pay by making a bank transaction through the internet banking (which can be a phone app, a website, etc). The payment details (account number of the receiver, the amount, etc) can be transferred through NFC or a QR code.

Money would go directly bank-to-bank, nothing in the middle.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#766

Post by artk42 »

> A coalition of 16 banks thinks it has the answer.

Oh! That's exactly what we all needed - 16 banks suggest their own "system", even more crude and clumsy imitation of the surveillance standards of payment systems and marketplaces, which shielded banks from snitching clients' consumption patterns.

They don't need anything advanced like Apple Pay layered tokenizations that at least respects a little of privacy. Everything is linked to a single phone (the article states that the focus is on Bizum and those pathetic peer-to-peer payment systems). The banks are in good shape to capture data, the tax authorities have a clear picture of how to squeeze the plebs even more - nice.

How about stablecoins with native yield from ECB treasuries? It solves everything and costs nothing. But we see what happens in US - "treasuries spread is not for plebs", - banks say.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#767

Post by StingyJelly »

This is about control, not sovereignty.

I hate having to use visa or mastercard when better options exist but the solution is to allow competitive solutions and make surcharge mandatory so customers bear the cost of their payment choices.

In the begining of this year, they basicly banned EU merchants from using confirmo (crypto payment gateway), when it was finally getting traction.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#768

Post by fransje26 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #741
usr1106 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money transfers between bank accounts for no extra fees (well, that's limited to the Euro, so a couple of countries chose to stay outside). Mobile phone usage for no extra fees all over EU (some limitations, but typically not relevant for the average trip). B2B the integration has even bigger impact. I don't think eletric plugs are even regulated. British plugs never changed and they were not an argument in Brexit.

All of those things don't require having a supranational body who you relinquish large parts of your sovereignty to.

Which is why bank to bank transfers are so easy in the US.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#769

Post by HunOL »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #736
HunOL wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law. Is Wero really a success? According to this article, in 2024 it processed over €7.5 billion. Polish BLIK, which is not even mentioned in the article and which has joined the EuroPA Alliance, processed €83 billion in 2024, with a 30% y/y increase in H1 2025. I understand that BLIK is much older, but it invested significant effort and money in marketing and promotion…

The EU consists of 27 different countries, with substantial practical barriers between their internal markets (even if it's one single market in theory). Often, only EU intervention can overcome those barriers. Otherwise, you end up with national fragmentation.

Solve the problem and people will come. I don't see which problem Wero is solving. Cross country p2p money transfers? Not something people do often.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#770

Post by moffkalast »

deeringc wrote: post #757
moffkalast wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SEPA would be a decent solution with instant QR code generation and app payments, but the transfer fees are ludicrous for daily use (~1-2€ per wire). Or maybe it's just my bank being greedy fucks as usual.

Instant SEPA is free - see Instant Payments Regulation (IPR) — Regulation (EU) 2024/886.

Hmm does instant SEPA differ in some way from the regular kind? I just checked and my bank still lists 0.4-1.1€ per external transfer. It's the national bank so I presume they're not likely to be in breach of EU regulations.
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