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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#931

Post by theshrike79 »

philistine wrote: post #930
hbarka wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model 3 has radar. It’s no longer functional and just a useless appendage. Until 2020-21 all Tesla had radar but Musk directed Tesla to disable the radar from the software stack, nerfing this hardware on tens of thousands of cars. Why? Because he staked on camera-only and to find out there’s still radar fusion would be against that. The real truth is probably they were derisking the part cost (during Covid) and th…

> The real Tesla engineers must be in all kinds of frustrations That's a very Hacker News point of view, that *of course* engineers have the correct opinion and attitude and are merely suffering under the boots of the real incompetent and nefarious. Engineers at Tesla are wholly complicit.

In this case the dude giving the order is the richest man in the world, hopped up on ketamine and a habit of just YOLOing stuff.

A single engineer telling him that LIDAR and radar is superior to camera-based systems isn't doing anything except getting said engineer fired.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#932

Post by theshrike79 »

Traster wrote: post #517
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

The competition was this:

Tesla had a very good computer, they were learning how to put a car around it.

Traditional manufacturers (German mostly) had good or very good cars, but they sucked at the computer stuff.

---

And unknown to all, the Chinese learned how to make good cars with good computers built in as those two were trying to achiever their respective goals.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#933

Post by jiggawatts »

disillusioned wrote: post #313
jcgrillo wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We "just" need to figure out the terraforming problem then we can all move to Mars and be interplanetary explorers. Imagine how cool it would be to have corporate leaders who had vision--environmentally friendly automobiles, cheap space travel, etc.--without the clammy snake oil grifter bullshit. Reality is cool AF . The things that are actually achievable are amazing. We don't need to spout nonsense to do great thin…

The Mars obsession absolutely blows me away. Like, he's obviously read KSR's Red Mars. He's obviously aware of the conditions out there. Mars is a fuckin' bummer . It is absolutely hostile to human life. Sure, we'll land people there, and maybe set up some sort of station if we really want to throw a few trillion dollars away from actual problems here on earth... but it's not going to be pleasant. Not anytime, ever.…

An interview with a Silicon Valley big shot finally explained this.

The concept is that you can convince smart people to work extra hard for you by selling them the story that no-no-no, they’re not merely tweaking some dystopian algorithm to sell Chinese plastic crap to people, they’re saving the world.

Once you recognise this pattern, you’ll see it everywhere: Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, and Elon all do it.

Hence the “AI safety” rhetoric. Those CEOs will gladly take the safeties off and make an army of Terminators to sell to the highest bidder! The safety talk is for their employees, to convince them to work like slaves to “save the world”.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#934

Post by omilu »

edmundsauto wrote: post #859
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is making humanoid robots a moat? It really isn't. (1) Also, what's the first billion dollar market for humanoid robots? Industry? "lights-out manufacturing" exists already, and doesn't require humanoid robots. Hyundai and BYD (among others) say they're going to put humanoid robots in their factories (2). They won't be Tesla robots. Is this really such a huge use? 1) https://www.topgear.com/car-news/tech/here-a…

I want my laundry robot!

Yes I would easily pay 20k for a robot to fold and put away laundry.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#935

Post by toomuchtodo »

misiek08 wrote: post #322
toomuchtodo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla got the job done, which was empower Musk, not manufacture EVs at scale. The stock is the product.

Maybe I’m just naive enough, because I love cars and progress, but I think you agree that he really showed our whole small world that EV can exist and work. Everyone laughed, no one believed it will work and here he still is rich and we have Teslas everywhere. Driving, not killing more people than other brands.

I think China would’ve gotten us to here without Tesla.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#936

Post by evanjrowley »

ruszki wrote: post #294
direwolf20 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything China isn't far ahead in? Maybe capitalism was a failure.

Making good cars. They can make cheap ones, maybe acceptable ones, but not good ones. They are not there yet. Of course, the general populace doesn’t really care, and the vast majority of the market is not driven by this, but still.

My experience in a BYD is they'd be in very high demand across the U.S. if it were possible to buy them here.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#937

Post by quesera »

niek_pas wrote: post #505
nunez wrote: post #107

This is sad in that I was serious about finally getting one in two to three years (We have two Model 3 LRs already), but is fantastic in that no other car interests me and I now don't have this hyper materialistic goal distracting me. If Tesla completely exits automotive and decides to license their FSD tech (or someone else catches up), then I'll probably just get whatever the equivalent of a Bolt is then with that…

This is slightly off topic but what kind of living situation requires three cars? Polyamorous family?

Any of a dozen common situations, but probably the most common is having children who reach driving age.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#938

Post by runlaszlorun »

xnx wrote: post #926
lnsru wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

A Cybertruck-styled minivan would've been so badass. Like an updated version of the Toyota Van Wagon.

Any chance we can get VW to do a Cyber Vanagon??

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#939

Post by niek_pas »

senordevnyc wrote: post #707
niek_pas wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slightly off topic but what kind of living situation requires three cars? Polyamorous family?

I have multiple friends who have 6+ cars. To be fair, they're pretty well-off (mid six figure income), but one for example: - Husband Tesla daily driver - Wife Bronco daily driver - Truck to pull their boat - Campervan for outdoor adventures - Older car for teenager to drive - 90s convertible for summer fun

I’m guessing this is in the US? Do you think there’s a number where they would go, “too many cars”?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#940

Post by trhway »

panick21_ wrote: post #709
trhway wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The refresh would need large investment. And it seems that S/X weren't selling that well to warrant such an investment. Just looking around - SV, a key market for Tesla - everybody buys 3 and Y, not S and X. In some sense it seems that 3/Y cannibalized S/X.

The problem is just there is no concept of a car company where they only sell their standard mass market vehicles. Somewhat more expensive higher margin vehicles are in the lineup for almost all the other companies. Its kind of strange to suggest its not worth it when it is seemingly worth it for most other companies. Maybe the wisdom of having a 'full lineup' is wrong and has to do with making dealers happy. On the…

It is worth it when it is done right, i.e when you do correct market differentiation (see my other comment here on Mercedes) to avoid your low end cannibalizing your higher end. This high margin really helps you, and this is why almost everybody does it. EVs are probably even better suited for it given that the platform itself is easier/cheaper to share between the low end and the high end - thus the current Teslas S/X story looks even more of a failure as by releasing 3/Y that similar to S/X (that probably helped a lot with 3/Y sales though) they forced themselves into the need for a very significant (expensive) redesign of S/X while having very low sales of it.
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