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US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

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Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#931

Post by mensetmanusman »

empath75 wrote: post #650
mensetmanusman wrote: post #230

Nearly half of kids aren’t being raised with their parents in the home. This was rare 50 years ago, and all the research shows that home dynamics matters the most. Education spending has shot up per student because people think it will solve cultural ills.

> Nearly half of kids aren’t being raised with their parents in the home. This was rare 50 years ago, and all the research shows that home dynamics matters the most. Every thread about something like this is full of people just blaming it on whatever social trend annoys them personally. But also this statistic is absolute bullshit. 71% of kids in the US have two parents at home, and the number is going up.

60% of kids are growing up with their biological parents. This matters due to the statistics on time allocation from other arrangements. 60% is nearly half, especially when you factor in absenteeism that happens at home due to other social ills. Our country has never been as unhealthy.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#932

Post by araes »

GrinningFool wrote: post #276
araes wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a couple thoughts to that general idea: - There's also a reward issue, in that reading, especially long form is "soft punished." It's not directly punished, yet there's very little reward, mostly a lot of struggle, not much of the candy feedback of TV, movies, and video games. It requires personal imagination and visualization of often difficult concepts rather than simply taking what someone else has "imagined c…

I wonder how much of the YA uptick is driven by adults who prefer less-challenging reading. If that's the case it just makes the picture appear even more bleak.

That kind of issue is very much "eh" for me personally. They're reading. Not everybody's motivated to read "Ulysses" or "War and Peace". Probably a significant percentage move to reading more challenging material with time.

The issue a lot of people are talking about is the decline in reading comprehension, lowered reading scholastic scores, the overall lack of reading, and the consumption of entertainment that requires little reading.

Stuff like the "Treasure Island" (#34), "Oliver Twist" (#56), and "The Hound of the Baskervilles" (#66) still rates rather high up on Young Adult literature sales by Amazon's reported numbers, even if romance and such is the top 5-10. They're reading.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#933

Post by tstrimple »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #720
monkeyelite wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US there are a few obvious things, but everyone acts as if we are powerless to solve them Yes but they aren’t the things you said: 1. Schools are filled with disruptive kids who use up time and resources and are not removed. 2. Teachers have no enforcement authority so they cannot do any of what you said, including removing phones. 3. Teachers and administrators are generally not smart or capable and continu…

Is 1 even true? I can't say I have ever heard of a school that allows phones out in class. Taking them till the end of school, or making a parent come claim them is the standard punishment I have seen.

Yes it's true but it's not limited to or even primarily phones. It's disruptive students who cannot sit still or listen to lessons regardless of whether they have a phone or not. Phones are an easy scapegoat for shit parents who won't do anything to set their kids on the right path. Anything wrong their kids do must be because of someone else. Ban the phones all you want. These parents will still be shit parents and their kids will still be disruptive in classes. We cannot tackle anti-social behaviors because it's largely a protected political and religious class.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#934

Post by ThrowMeAway1618 »

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #859
breakyerself wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to think sports is good for kids. Not football though. My kids in high school marching band so I'm at the games. It's stupid how many kids get hurt on any given Saturday and some will go on to have CTE

Yeah. I was the only kid in Texas who was vaguely interested in athletics but completely uninterested in football. I mean... I was never insulted for playing baseball or soccer, but yeah, we need a better game than football as the go-to for Texas sports.

>we need a better game than football as the go-to for Texas sports.

Freestyle[0] FTW! Let's Jam!

[0] https://www.freestyle-frisbee.com/index.html

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#935

Post by SJC_Hacker »

Aurornis wrote: post #758
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that most highschool football teams make a profit. I would be surprised if ticket sales even cover the cost of the staff working the game.

The take from concessions sales and tickets is actually very high. At the school where I’m familiar with the finances, the concessions stands were run by student volunteers from other after school programs. They got a cut of the profit. It was an easy way for different programs to raise money with a much larger audience than they could get anywhere else. This school wasn’t even a “football school”. The football event…

And how much do they pay the coach and assistants? How much to maintain athletic fields?

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#936

Post by stinkbeetle »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #720
monkeyelite wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US there are a few obvious things, but everyone acts as if we are powerless to solve them Yes but they aren’t the things you said: 1. Schools are filled with disruptive kids who use up time and resources and are not removed. 2. Teachers have no enforcement authority so they cannot do any of what you said, including removing phones. 3. Teachers and administrators are generally not smart or capable and continu…

Is 1 even true? I can't say I have ever heard of a school that allows phones out in class. Taking them till the end of school, or making a parent come claim them is the standard punishment I have seen.

Cellphones is true, but it's mostly just another symptom of the disruptive kids.

The ones trying to do their best, who are not rude and inconsiderate of others, are usually quietly paying attention regardless of whether or not they have a phone with them. The disruptive ones are going to cause other ways to play up even if they could not have their phones with them.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#937

Post by jmpman »

Spivak wrote: post #718
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> Yet the football team is fully funded, and the baseball diamond is kept up The football team makes money, why do people constantly ignore this. There's always money for ventures that have positive ROI. It has nothing to do with priorities. At schools with top theater programs they're also always fully funded because they bring in outside revenue.

A high school varsity football team has how many players? 50? My son’s graduating class is almost 1000. So 5% of students get to play football, but 100% of them don’t get a library.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#938

Post by jmpman »

jbeam wrote: post #736
Spivak wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you didn't go to a football school. We had a multi-million dollar stadium that could hold a thousand-ish fans and it was packed every game. Most of them were season ticket holders. We also raked in $$ from other schools who wanted to host their events using our stadium. Also none of the people working the game are paid except for the ref (and the TV crew if you have one). It's all volunteers and students. Our pr…

The vast majority of high school sports teams aren't coming anywhere close to a profit. Your experience is unusual, which answers your question: > why do people constantly ignore this.

I’d like to see how much my school district spends on football. Unfortunately they don’t release the numbers anywhere for public scrutiny that I’ve found. How can I find the actual numbers? I don’t want to go to the school board accusing them of wasting money on football if it’s actually net profitable.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#939

Post by jmpman »

crazygringo wrote: post #784
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but is there still much purpose in a modern high school libraries except as a work/study space? Elementary school libraries are important because kids can check out books at their reading level and you don't need a huge variety. But in high school, when I wanted a book for research or recreational reading, 99% of the time my high school library wouldn't have it anyways. You had…

It’s a place for students to get exposed to a wider range of material than they otherwise would have.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#940

Post by jmpman »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

The town I’m in has grown 1000% in the last 20 years. The original residents were almost all from a very conservative religious group. That group had power over all politics back then, and have retained power today. They’re very aligned with removing the books, and there’s no communication to the 90% of parents in the district who, although conservative, aren’t from the previously dominant religious group. They do it quietly, don’t communicate what they’re doing or why, and they just get their way with nobody to object.
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