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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#931
post #858
post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like how OpenAI turned majorly from what it was founded upon and their bias training ... but when considering the actual opponent here is China, it's not the worst. I think OpenAI was originally founded against that kind of force. Autocratic governments becoming masters of AI.

Interestingly perhaps, as a foreigner (not from the USA or China) I can tell you not everyone around the world shares this perspective. There's people who trust China's single-party system over the USA's oligarchy.

Propaganda is a powerful tool.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are maybe a few hundred people in the world who viscerally understand what's coming. Most are at DeepMind / OpenAI / Anthropic / X but some are on the outside. You have to be able to forecast the aggregate effect of rapid algorithmic improvement, aggressive investment in building RL environments for iterative self-improvement, and many tens of billions already committed to building data centers. Either we're a…

>Maybe they really are all wrong All? Quite a few of the best minds in the field, like Yann LeCun for example, have been adamant that 1) autoregressive LLMs are NOT the path to AGI and 2) that AGI is very likely NOT just a couple of years away.

It's obviously not taken to mean literally everybody.

Whatever LeCun says and really even he has said "AGI is possible in 5 to 10 years" as recently as 2 months ago (so if that's the 'skeptic' opinion, you can only imagine what a lot of people are thinking), Meta has and is pouring a whole lot of money into LLM development. "Put your money where your mouth is" as they say. People can say all sorts of things but what they choose to focus their money on tells a whole lot.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#933
post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

We could do 20 Manhattan projects with it[1]. 1) Build fully autonomous cars so there are zero deaths from car accidents. This is ~45K deaths/year (just US!) and millions of injuries. Annual economic cost of crashes is $340 billion. Worldwide the toll is 10 - 100x? 2) Put solar on top of all highways. 3) Give money to all farmers to put solar. 4) Build transmission. And many more ... The Manhattan Project employed ne…

(contingent on the money actually being spent, which....) This is basically an AI-manhattan project. It would employ vast numbers of construction, tradesmen, manufacturing, etc.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#934
post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

I am surprised at the negativity from HN. Their clear goal is to build superintelligence. Listen to any of the interviews with Altman, Demis Hassabis, or Dario Amodei (Anthropic) on the purpose of this. They discuss the roadmaps to unlimited energy, curing disease, farming innovations to feed billions, permanent solutions to climate change, and more. Does no one on HN believe in this anymore? Isn't this tech startup…

> They discuss the roadmaps to unlimited energy, curing disease, farming innovations to feed billions, permanent solutions to climate change, and more.

Look at who is president, or who is in charge of the biggest companies today. It is extremely clear that intelligence is not a part of the reason why they are there. And with all their power and money, these people have essentially zero concern for any of the topics you listed.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that if artificial superintelligence is ever created, all of a sudden the capitalist structure of society will get thrown away. The AIs will be put to work enriching the megalomaniacs, just like many of the most intelligent humans are.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#935
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

> we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home I'd give the money to folks starting in the trades before bailling out the college-educated class. Also, wiping out numbers on a spreadsheet doesn't erect new homes. If we wiped out student debt, the portion of that value that went into new homeownership would principally fl…

This sort of folksy take always ignores that the same issue happens with the trades as does with the professional classes. No one class is immune to a crash due to unnatural promotion. You've let your moral view overcome that reality

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#937
post #622
post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

"we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. "

Don't throw more money at schools. They will happily take the money and jack up tuition even more. There is no reason why tuition is going up at the pace it does.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#938
post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like how OpenAI turned majorly from what it was founded upon and their bias training ... but when considering the actual opponent here is China, it's not the worst. I think OpenAI was originally founded against that kind of force. Autocratic governments becoming masters of AI.

I’m an American who was definitely raised in a “China Bad” world. The last few months, between TikTok ban, RedNote, elections, United Healthcare CEO, etc I’ve seen so many people compare the US to China, and favor China. Which is of course crazy because China has things like forced labor and concentration camps of religious minorities, and far worse oppression than the US. But many people just view everything coming…

I don’t get the good guys / bad guys mindset tbh. Sure china gov is pretty bad and the us is by many metrics better - but why center your whole worldview around things that probably don’t affect you that much in your daily life?

US also has forced labour, huge prison population, bombing civilians and journalists to oblivion, literally nuking other countries and religious fanatics — do I still think china would be less pleasant as our new overlord? Yes — Do I think the world is better off with US-American hegemony? I’m not so sure.

Maybe it’s a net good for the world if not one power is dominating — maybe it’s the start of a hellish ww3. I choose to believe the former.

edit: typos

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#939
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

> we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home I'd give the money to folks starting in the trades before bailling out the college-educated class. Also, wiping out numbers on a spreadsheet doesn't erect new homes. If we wiped out student debt, the portion of that value that went into new homeownership would principally fl…

Student loans are the only loan type which you cannot bankrupt out of. I'm sure that many students would accept bankruptcy rather than bailouts if that is preferable. It doesn't make sense to saddle 20 year olds with insurmountable debt.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#940
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

> we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home I'd give the money to folks starting in the trades before bailling out the college-educated class. Also, wiping out numbers on a spreadsheet doesn't erect new homes. If we wiped out student debt, the portion of that value that went into new homeownership would principally fl…

Couple things that aren’t accounted for:

A) this is a pledge by companies they may or may not even have the cash required to back it up. Certainly they aren’t spending it all at once, but to be completely honest it’s nothing more than a PR stunt right now that seems to be an exercise in courting favor

B) that so called private capital is going to get incentives from subsidies, like tax breaks, grants etc. It’s inevitable if this proceeds to an actual investment stage. What’s that about it being pure private capital again?

C) do to the aforementioned circumstances in A it seems whatever government support systems are stood up to support this - and if this isn’t ending in hot air, there will be - it still means it’s not pure private capital and worse yet, they’ll likely end up bilking tax payers and the initiative falls apart with companies spending far less then the pledge but keeping all the upside.

I’ll bet a years salary it plays out like this.

If this ends up being 100% private capital with no government subsidies of any kind, I’ll be shocked and elated. Look at anything like this in the last 40 years and you’ll find scant few examples that actually hold up under scrutiny that they didn’t play out this way.

Which brings me to my second part. So we are going to - in some form - end up handing out subsidies to these companies, either at the local state or federal level, but by the logic of not paying off student debt, why are we going to do this? It’s only propping up an unhealthy economic policy no?

Why is it so bad for us to cancel student debt but it’s fine to have the same cost equivalent as subsidies for businesses? Is it under the “creates jobs” smoke screen? Despite the fact the overwhelming majority of money made will not go to the workers but back to the wealthy and ultra wealthy.

There's no sense of equity here. If the government is truly unequivocally hands off - no subsidies, no incentives etc - than fine, the profits go where they go, and thats the end of it.

However, it won't be, and that opens up a perfectly legitimate ask about how this money is going to get used and who it benefits

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