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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#931
post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that's a German law, nothing to do with the EU

True. But it’s also most often German courts that make headlines because a webmaster used a Google Font. I’d much rather have Google know my IP address than have some nutcase know where I live.

This is about a French court upholding a rulung under EU law. I'm not sure what Germany has to do with it.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's a fragmented internet that is best aligned with our own interests. I, for one, would really like to have more fragments to explore.

For me it's philosophically reminiscent of the Berlin Wall or the Chinese Great Firewall. Personally, my knee-jerk reaction is that it threatens certain freedoms, but I am also a liberal raised with a Western education.

I guess I'm seeing more like a huge swath of farmland growing a monoculture for export, versus the same land being used as a patchwork of different crops based on the various farmers' tastes and relationships with their neighbors. The latter is more likely to change gradually as the climate and the needs of the people around it change, while the former is prone to changing all at once, perhaps unexpectedly.

People's ideas about how their technology should serve them will change over time. I don't want to have to overthrow the old internet before we can try something new, I want it to grow with us--the parts that aren't serving us die off, the parts that address new challenges flourish. If its all one thing, subject to one set of rules, that doesn't happen.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#933
post #562
post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The government has a defect . It's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect - They're pure tyrannies." - Noam Chomsky

Still waiting for those "pure tyrannies". Meanwhile every damn thing I am using in my daily life, from my car, computer to the furnace heating my house - was made by a corporation. And I did live under communism, with absolutely zero corporations. Then I knew tyranny every day. And shortages. Did Noam Chomsky live under communism by any chance?

The fact that you lived under a bad government, while sad, doesn't invalidate Noam's statement.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, any company worth their salt has a website these days. Not to show ads, but to be visible out there. They obviously gain from having a website, even without ads. They can pay for that. For other websites, they can ask their community for support. Then maybe we will learn, that we need to pay for good services, or they disappear. That would be better in my opinion than unconsensually becoming the product as the…

>I have been running a server for a year or two. Paying for that myself. I get a wage every month from the job, so I can pay for a server. Theoretically I could run lots of services on that server and still only pay the same amount every month. For dedicated people in IT sector wages are often good and they can afford to run a few things out of their own pocket. My guess is many people would do that. Not every websit…

Even greater their incentive to keep playing the game. Many more wages depend on that than my own. I am not necessarily calling for them being wrong, but for them playing with the numbers and presenting them in a way, that makes many people believe. They have credible deniability as well, because their tracking script didn't even run on browsers, which blocked it, so they couldn't know about those "edge cases". Only that those "edge cases" can make a significant portion of the total visitors of that website.

In the end they profit from telling everyone, that they must use GA (or similar tool) to track what is going on on the website and most marketing people will happily jump on that train, because it gives them any kind of data, which they can use to justify things, even if that data is only half the story and cannot be relied upon to give a true picture. "The data tells us so!" makes the job much easier, unfortunately often at the cost of user privacy. And so the make believe, that you must track your users with third party trackers continues and propagates. Then on the development side of things, developers or their higher ups eschew the work needed to implement first party tracking. They want that cake at no cost. Without strong ehics, the website of such an organization is doomed to disrespect the privacy of its visitors.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are building up a whole strawman here. This is all about sending personal data to a machine in the US, owned by a company, which falls under US law. You don't have to send that personal data to the US, do you? Why would you do such a thing in the first place? Surely informed people would not simply consent to such a practice. And I mean informed. Not just clicking "OK OK next OK" without knowing what actually goe…

It's not a strawman, it was the company I worked for. We helped manufacture medical devices. We sold a device that took medical images, and then sent the images to a server. The server would do tons of processing on the images, and help manufacture a medical device custom to the patient. We ran our servers in the United States. We could not sell our product in France, until we stood up servers in France to store and…

You were transferring dicom files out of country? Madness. That's identifiable medical data.

Tell me you were at least running anonymisation software in hospitals before you transferred?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#936

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another way to be compliant is to not collect PII. The GDPR extends far beyond the US notion of PII. As I understand it, it covers basically all user-submitted or user-related data if it's possible for that data to be hypothetically tied to an individual in the EU (even if that can be done without your service holding traditional PII). > As a private individual I suspect you would not have much to stand on if the N…

> The GDPR extends far beyond the US notion of PII. That's a good thing. The US notion of PII is ridiculously naive.

It includes IP address... the fundamental glue that makes routing to and from said servers possible. Good luck being able to resolve web requests without knowing where to send the response.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#937

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The GDPR extends far beyond the US notion of PII. That's a good thing. The US notion of PII is ridiculously naive.

It includes IP address... the fundamental glue that makes routing to and from said servers possible. Good luck being able to resolve web requests without knowing where to send the response.

IP address is both personally-identifying information and also technically required to provide computational service.

Just like your name is personally-identifying information and (usually) required to provide medical service.

But being required for service doesn't automatically mean that it can be shared with third parties. You can't share names with third parties. Why would you share IP addresses?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc [...] No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but imho AWS, GCP and Azure are popular with startups because of their generous free credits, not because they are good tools for startups. As a startup you are typically better served by a DigitalOcean-level of complexity, and there are plenty of such offers in the EU (Hetzner Cloud, Grids…

I'm pretty sure Microsoft 365 is GDPR-compliant and is storing data in whatever jurisdiction you set it up to. I know we've had a lot of issues with an European company we bought; we're both using Microsoft 365 but they're set up in France. I don't think the IT folks ever figured out how to merge them (even though we probably pay a shitton to MS for support), so those folks keep using their old domain (but we can sha…

Stockholm, Sweden begs to differ as they just dropped Office 365 due to Schrems II: https://www.version2.dk/artikel/microsoft-forsikrer-lovlige-... (Danish article)

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Track hits on a post-download URL It will be mixed with downloads that come from organic search. >This stuff is mostly meaningless. I disagree.

> It will be mixed with downloads that come from organic search. Use a different page/form to track the two separately.

No post body was provided.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#940

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

Sounds like a whole new market opened up for the EU.
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