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The rise of never-ending job interviews

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Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#931
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for that particular interview cycle (or avoid the trap ones like that) and that person gets hired (and then put on the ad targeting team or whatever).

100%, speaking as someone who's been both sides of the equation in FAANG hiring. Part of the problem is the sheer scale of hiring, but I think most of the problem comes down to the lack of feedback or evaluation mechanisms on the interviewing side. They train you up, half a days worth, training tells you not to be an arsehole, not to ask stupid questions, not to have unreasonable demands of candidates, not to be bias…

I also did interviewing at a FAANG and this was not my experience.

1. We trained 4-5 times on each type of question. The first few were shadows, and then we did reverse shadows where someone watched us give the interview and gave feedback later. In one category I asked for and was allowed to reverse shadow an extra 1-2 interviews.

2. There was auditing. In debriefs where you discussed the candidate and reviewed notes, the debrief lead was supposed to closely examine what questions you asked and how you conducted the interview, with the explicit goal of making sure that the interview was conducted within spec and your recommendation made sense given performance. Shortly after I was certified to do interviews, a debrief leader (correctly) identified a major issue in an interview that I had conducted. That candidate was given another interview in the same category. Although I didn't face any official sanctions, it was definitely an embarrassing experience and made me handle future interviews more thoughtfully.

Overall, I was fairly comfortable with the rigor of the process that I saw. I'm certainly not saying the process is perfect but my experience did not align with yours.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#932
post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means LPs, Leadership Principles

Right - I meant LP's, for some reason they are "Guiding Principles" in my head this morning.

If you had said LPs instead, I still wouldn't have known what you meant.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was for a junior c# position so I doubt it's applicable considering Visual Studio will point out the problems. But I'm curious what position would this question make sense?

> I'm curious what position would this question make sense? I was once asked a similar but better posed question: I was given some code and asked what I'd point out if asked to do a code review on it. And the code had loads of things wrong with it, from bad variable names and incorrect comments, through unit tests that didn't have any assertions and loops that weren't actually loops, all the way to choosing a non-sec…

This is awesome and I think every company should do something like this. You get to ballpark technical ability really well while getting some very relevant behavioral information (i.e. what will it actually be like to work with this person, without lame ‘culture fit’ questions). It can be hard to test competence in a way that allows all kinds of devs to shine; code reviews are pretty unavoidable on the job though so it’s a good fit.

Coding is a mostly solitary activity that you probably don’t want candidates spending more than ~60 minutes on, ideally on something that resembles the actual day-to-day instead of sucking all the Leetcode possible out of them. Even just quickly pair programming on something nets you more data points in the same time.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#934
problem, is as an industry we're treating software engineering as a science only. forgetting it's part science part art. now you can be smart, but not be artistic. which is a major problem, google n other faangs have notorious interviews which wannabes copy. yet can't make software that works half the time. maybe it's high time, the software industry looks at how creatives get hired. coz after all we're a creative industry - just only using engineering principles to create art

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#935
post #897
post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I see articles about a wrongfully convicted man being let out of prison. This usually comes with a cash payment of some sort. The whole we took 20 years of your life, oops, here’s a million dollars. Every time I see this though I think ‘no, no way does money replace my time.’ That’s simply not good enough. And not because the payments are usually ludicrously low, but because there is no amount of money that…

IDK, if the interview is just a few hours of misery to get a significant financial upside, it's not such a big deal. People always assume the job will be miserable too, but that varies from team to team. Especially because the salary is high enough that you may be able to save enough to buy your life back if you're careful and have time on your side.

Be sure to price in general life risks like accidents, cancer, stress induced hearth attacks etc. The problem with this approach is, that a non zero number of people will not live long enough to buy their life back.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#936
post #424

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

I interviewed for a software engineering position with Goldman once (in London). The process spanned several weeks of phone interviews with people in the UK and US (I lost track of the count), followed by a full day of back-to-back interviews on-site with 12 different people - some via video conference with New York. Questions were extremely diverse, both wide and deep. Early on in the process I decided to look at th…

Don't feel bad. It's entirely possible that they filled that position somewhere along the way and some departments didn't communicate to figure that out in time.

Or the position was cancelled during the interviews.

Not every reason has to be personal.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#937

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rationality doesn't reflect the reality of Google being unable to innovate and continually competing with itself. Will another engineer from the same cohort who knows the same trivia and has the same education be able to shake things up? What happens to the 3 that get rejected, do they try again later and filter through? Or do they tire of the process, give up, and work for competitors?

When you're in such a dominant position they don't care about people being able to shake things up

Neither did IBM, GE, Oracle.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#938
The trouble with interviews these days is that there is no penalty for false negatives.

Long, multiple interviews are great for those who are already in the group - it provides legitimate excuse to hold off doing actual work, feel smug with their peers about how difficult the job is, and also provides acceptable excuse for project delays.

As a senior engineer, it's amusing being interviewed by intelligent but very junior engineers who clearly cannot understand the scope of what's in the resume. This usually happens with a quick scan of the resume followed by a realization (there is this peculiar look) that they don't have any relevant questions to ask about the experience, and finally landing on their favourite puzzle questions because what they really want to know is how my thought process works.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#940
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is that I specifically remember a conference where some library that a google employee wrote was terrible. The one google developer talking about it, disavowed any responsibility of it. Whatever metrics that google is using in their interviews have probably become worthless in the past decade as people game the system.

In my startup I interviewed a 48 years old senior Java programmer with excellent resume, who took 1hr to write a String.contains(), it only worked for the requested 4 letters, didn’t work if a letter was repeated twice, and didn’t work with Chinese characters. At least it had the JUnit. I asked an employee to do it too and he made his code pass the JUnit in 6 minutes. The candidate hated the interview, claiming it wa…

Why would you not use the language built-ins?

I am not a Java programmer but it took me 30 seconds to find the contains() method.

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