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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#931

Post by Razengan »

kwanbix wrote: post #910
alkonaut wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they do a lot to curtail scummy developer practices. Which is excellent. Apple taking a cut for apps I have no problem with. They have support, I trust them with privacy/security and so on. That costs money. The interesting discussion is how much apple can claim to own a part of profits made in the apps, by selling content (in-app purchases). On one hand: if a game is free for a trial, and you can unlock the full g…

I agree with you somehow. 30% sounds too high. 10% is much more reasonable. Imagine you selling a house and the realtor getting 30% of it. Crazy high.

What percentage do Microsoft, Google, Sony, Nintendo, Steam and Epic take?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#932

Post by TechBro8615 »

Razengan wrote: post #915
alkonaut wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they do a lot to curtail scummy developer practices. Which is excellent. Apple taking a cut for apps I have no problem with. They have support, I trust them with privacy/security and so on. That costs money. The interesting discussion is how much apple can claim to own a part of profits made in the apps, by selling content (in-app purchases). On one hand: if a game is free for a trial, and you can unlock the full g…

> if I buy a recipe app for $10 and then recipes for $1 a piece which I could also buy on the corresponding website, then I don't think apple should have a cut at all. Ah that sounds like a fair point at first, but it could be argued that you gained access to those sales because of Apple. More importantly, they're processing payments for you, and every payment processor out there takes a cut, one way or the other.

Payment processors take a cut in the range of 1-3%.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#933

Post by fastball »

simonklitj wrote: post #930
fastball wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy holds. If I need a replacement part for my Nespresso (app updates) and I order that on Amazon, then Amazon gets their cut for facilitating and fulfilling the delivery of this replacement part. That's reasonable, because you are taking some portion of proceeds from a transaction that you have a hand in . What is not reasonable is for Apple to take a cut from transactions that do not need to involve them. I…

I fail to see how this is a problem, honestly. A part of choosing to distribute to the iPhone platform is making sure all transactions related to the product you distribute go through Apple. I don't see anybody complaining about Sony taking cuts and requiring transactions go through the PlayStation Network, even though purchasing things for Fortnite there does not in any way, shape or form need to involve the PlaySta…

If developers want to build out a system to accept microtransactions on their game without going through PSN, I think they should be able to do that too.

I do not think marketplace providers should be able to exert monopolistic pressure on developers that use their marketplace, full stop. I think it's anti-competetive and bad for the entire digital ecosystem as a whole.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#934

Post by krrrh »

fastball wrote: post #894
krrrh wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be even more accurate if Nespresso gave away free machines on amazon that could only heat water, expected Amazon to advertise them, ship them free to prime customers and handle returns and customer support, and also insisted that pods required to do anything with the machine were exclusively available direct from Nespresso. Though, in the real world of physical goods Amazon also sells generic pods from all s…

Epic isn't demanding anything. Apple's involvement has nothing to do with who can sell hats on Fortnite. Epic also isn't "expecting" Apple to do all that. Apple does all that as part of paying for an Apple Developer License. If their costs are not being recouped by that, they should charge what it's actually costing them to deliver those services. They should not be charging 30% on transactions they don't need to hav…

The point about hats is where do you draw the line on restricting access to a market? When does Fortnite become a platform that locks out hat designers or is perceived as taking too large of a cut from the hat store?

If Apple did enforce fee-for-service on developer accounts you’d see HN light up in a way that would make this thread look tame in comparison. Consumers benefit massively from free and open source apps getting access to App Store, APNS, Game Center, etc. This makes the platform more valuable for giant companies like Epic.

Perhaps you think sidewalks should be reserved for those who pay property taxes? Or that people should make per-step micropayments? Or tourists and children should require credits to access parks?

> … the only reason …

A statement like this is bound to be false. Ecosystems are complex.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#936

Post by bluecalm »

philliphaydon wrote: post #860
ralfn wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because its the sort of above most transaction fees of most payment providers in the world. But Apple can ask whatever they want. They can't block side-loading though. That's the uncompetitive part. You can run your store and pick whatever terms you like. You can't use your marketshare in hardware sales to bundle a forced store. Imagine Tesla charging you 30% of any grocery shopping (i.e. would refuse to open the doo…

I don't want side-loading apps on iPhone. The moment you allow side-loading you can no longer trust the apps on a phone. Is it really facebook or was facebook removed and replaced with something else.

You don't have to side load anything. If you think it's worth paying 30% for the Apple review process etc. You're free to do so. Just let others make their own decisions.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#937

Post by TechBro8615 »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #540

I'm tired of this kind of bullshit. I can't buy books on the kindle app, I can't play Apple music on my google mini, I can't install the PAX app for my vape on iOS, and now that. Yet there isn't enough abuse from Apple to make us switch to another platform. Without regulation this situation will never be fixed.

I think they fixed the PAX issue btw. :) might depend on country.

If you can’t get that to work, I was able to side load it but it was a pain in the ass. You need to get an IPA (which you can only get by decrypting the app on a jailbroken device), then you need to bundle it in a shim Xcode app that you sign with a 24 hour certificate and deploy to your device in developer mode.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#938

Post by boudin »

jalfresi wrote: post #916
boudin wrote: post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their review system is totally random, and that's what makes it painful. There's easy way to trick them for some things, so I wouldn't consider this as an actual proper safety net. It does give the impression of safety to the end user though, I guess that's the intent. Apple uses techniques from totalitarian regimes. They decide, judge and control everything. There's no freedom at all. You can only use what Apple dec…

As an Apple customer the review system is working very well for me. No malicious apps have got through the process and onto my phone yet. In that sense, its worth it to me.

That you know off. The security is provided by the operating system, not the review process. The last layer, and that's the most efficient one, which exists on most systems is you by choosing what you install (most because some phones/computers manufacturers adds pre-installed crapwares)

I can tell you that across all my devices I don't think any malicious apps made its way there neither (as for you with your ios device, I will never be entirely sure). And this, without apple random reviews.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#939

Post by whywhywhywhy »

yvdriess wrote: post #866
0xy wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PR stunt that consumers and small businesses could benefit from. 30% decimates indie studios and makes some apps fiscally nonviable.

Regarding the 30% cut. It's the large scale clients that are hurt the most by the 30% cut. Old timer indie devs who used to have to manage payment and distribution themselves, like Jeff Vogel, will tell you that Steam's cut is absolutely fair given the value it brings. On PC there are different platforms competing for Steam, which might be a reason why Valve introduced discount tiers for more successful titles. If an…

With Steam you're welcome to sell on steam and get the benefits with the cut and also sell on your own website.

It's not the same.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#940

Post by whywhywhywhy »

fastball wrote: post #839

To everyone that is supporting Apple's position, let me run this hypothetical by you: You buy a Nespresso machine on Amazon. Some amount of the purchase price goes to Amazon for facilitating the transaction and delivering it to you, some goes to Nespresso for actually making the device. Cool. Then you get a pod subscription from Nespresso – let's say there is a touch screen on the coffee machine itself where you ente…

Why isn't your landlord getting a cut of those pod sales? I mean they're providing the foundations and the kitchen counter the Nespresso is standing on, without your landlords foundations you wouldn't even be able to plug it in.
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