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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#931

Post by Muromec »

berryjerry wrote: post #862
jake_morrison wrote: post #747

We have to recognize how much we screwed over the Native Americans. We took away their prime land on the East coast. We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma that we didn't think we would ever want. We made them walk there in the "Trail of Tears", and lots of them died along the way. Then we decided to screw them out of the land in Oklahoma after all, but didn't go though the process properly because we didn't think…

I find your use of "we" interesting because you clearly identify as part of the group that committed those acts hundreds of years ago. How long should a child be responsible for the crimes of their fathers? As an example, assume your father killed someone and stole $1000 dollars from them. You never knew about this didn't choose for him to do this but now someone is coming after you saying you must pay them $1000. Yo…

>I find your use of "we" interesting because you clearly identify as part of the group that committed those acts hundreds of years ago. How long should a child be responsible for the crimes of their fathers?

As long as restitution has not happened and you are still profiting from the act of wrongdoing and the victim (or their descendants) are still suffering from it. It's pretty simple, isn't it.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#932

Post by ryan_lane »

peterwwillis wrote: post #796
beenBoutIT wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want ava…

> the right to consume anything they want for any reason How about human flesh? Nuclear waste? Bombs? Bags of dangerous quantities of hard drugs [a la drug mule]? Endangered species? Just like with free speech, "do anything you want for any reason" has the potential for abuse (both by a person to themselves and by other persons to other entities), and the majority of society is not comfortable with that. Sometimes we…

Nearly everything you've said involves directly harming another person, for which we already have agreed upon laws forbiding. Endangered species may not harm others, but we've agreed as a people that we care about the lives of other species at least enough to stop killing them before we've made them extinct.

In terms of being a drug mule, if drugs were decriminalized, drug mules wouldn't exist, and most drug cartel activity wouldn't either.

People are advocating to decriminalize and allow people to harm themselves if they want, because it's their body and their choice. It's sad that people want to harm themselves, but ultimately, we do a poor job of stopping people, and by attempting to stop them, we've done considerable harm to our society (war on drugs, propping up cartels, etc.)

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#933

Post by Zenbit_UX »

paradox242 wrote: post #730

"Forceful sodomy of a 4-year old girl" Yeah, if this is true, can we just hang this guy already?

Honestly I'm surprised he's still alive, pop culture has lead me to believe that men who commit sexual crimes on children don't survive long in prison. This is also one of the most heinous acts imaginable, what gives?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#934

Post by rtpg »

icelancer wrote: post #845
koheripbal wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine Congress is going to pass a law the ensures that Tulsa is not on part of the reservation. ...because that would be ludicrous. The Supreme Court is essentially forcing Congress to take a stance.

This is what Justice Thomas has been doing for a long time now (to a fault), and Gorsuch has also taken up: Congress, do your job rather than make the judicial branch perform extralegal bench activism.

Sure in theory Thomas is doing that, but it feels a lot like cosplay when such a resolution would go against his general views on power in general (see this case).

People might have their legal doctrines, but it’s rarely as clearcut as you lay out and all the justices can only at most be “problematic faves”

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#935

Post by moduspol »

darawk wrote: post #873
japhyr wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be "assigned moral guilt" to recognize atrocities from the past, their influence on the present state, and reparations that should be made.

It's kind of an interesting moral question though. Should immigrants have to pay reparations for the crimes of a state that neither they nor their ancestors were a part of? If we accept that the entity of the United States is responsible for these crimes and owes reparations...is it fair to use fungible tax dollars paid partially by immigrants to pay those reparations? I don't know. Interesting puzzle to think about…

Likewise, the Native Americans who controlled the land before the US likely didn't have it gifted to them freely. Tribes were constantly at various stages of war with each other, and some wiped out completely.

Do they owe reparations to each other, too? And what about the ones that are completely gone?

All of the discussion of reparations and making good on centuries-past injustices always leaves out how it all gets swept under the rug if there are no decendents around to make claims.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#936

Post by aspenmayer »

kendallpark wrote: post #375
throwawaysea wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well. I live in a city now, but I love the times I have spent traveling through or to rural areas. They have a bad reputation that is based on false notions of urban superiority and stereotypes that feel as baseless and unhinged as claims of other types of superiority (e.g. racial). The reality is when you visit these rural places, talk to the people there, take part in their culture, t…

> I come from Minneapolis, and before that I lived in Seattle and Boston — three of the bluest, most left-leaning cities in the United States. I was an urban woman and couldn’t imagine living anywhere other than a city. My husband concurred. Then our 28-year-old son died in late 2016. > Suddenly the traffic and noise and confusion became too much. John and I took off on a year’s driving tour of gentler parts — both o…

As a native and resident, Arkansas has a history and a reputation, but it also has amazing strength of character, and people who care about each other and their community. There are folks from all over the world who call my state home, and I’m proud to welcome them all.

Except the KKK. They are the bane of my home state, and it is my wish that I live to see each and every one of every group’s members publicly repudiate their membership and their belief in the groups. /rant

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#937

Post by take_a_breath »

darawk wrote: post #873
japhyr wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be "assigned moral guilt" to recognize atrocities from the past, their influence on the present state, and reparations that should be made.

It's kind of an interesting moral question though. Should immigrants have to pay reparations for the crimes of a state that neither they nor their ancestors were a part of? If we accept that the entity of the United States is responsible for these crimes and owes reparations...is it fair to use fungible tax dollars paid partially by immigrants to pay those reparations? I don't know. Interesting puzzle to think about…

It is a part of the system the immigrants are choosing to join when they arrive in a new country. You don’t get to choose only the good parts.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#938

Post by aspenmayer »

x87678r wrote: post #414
kendallpark wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I come from Minneapolis, and before that I lived in Seattle and Boston — three of the bluest, most left-leaning cities in the United States. I was an urban woman and couldn’t imagine living anywhere other than a city. My husband concurred. Then our 28-year-old son died in late 2016. > Suddenly the traffic and noise and confusion became too much. John and I took off on a year’s driving tour of gentler parts — both o…

Damn I never wanted to go to Arkansas before, now I do!

Please, visit! The Buffalo National River is one of the most amazing natural attractions in my neck of the woods. Nearby in Bentonville, Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art is the best world-class museum in the state, if not the region. I think we have some pretty famous art, if you’re into that kind of thing. Also in Bentonville is the corporate HQ of a little store which started in Arkansas, and kept growing, which you may have heard of: Walmart. A short trip from there takes you to Fayetteville, AR which is currently #4 in the nation for best places to live, according to U.S. News & World Report. Doesn’t hurt that the University of Arkansas is also in Fayetteville; my time on campus was longer ago every day, but the campus and its surrounding metro area is as vibrant as ever, and I hear good things about its Walton School of Business.

We have a legacy to bear as well, but I think we honor our mistakes and errors as well as our virtues. On that note, one of the projects I’m most proud of in NWA is our massive bike trails network that connects the Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers-Bentonville-Bella Vista area. This area was on the route of the Trail of Tears; this section of paths is the Northwest Arkansas Heritage Trail, part of the NWA Razorback Regional Greenway.

https://www.nps.gov/buff/index.htm

https://crystalbridges.org/blog/what-to-expect-for-crystal-b...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hvUCYRsUoQ

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/arkansas/fayetteville

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Arkansas

https://www.nwarpc.org/bicycle-and-pedestrian/

https://trails.cast.uark.edu/

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=0dd0...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#939

Post by SambalOelek »

berryjerry wrote: post #862
jake_morrison wrote: post #747

We have to recognize how much we screwed over the Native Americans. We took away their prime land on the East coast. We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma that we didn't think we would ever want. We made them walk there in the "Trail of Tears", and lots of them died along the way. Then we decided to screw them out of the land in Oklahoma after all, but didn't go though the process properly because we didn't think…

I find your use of "we" interesting because you clearly identify as part of the group that committed those acts hundreds of years ago. How long should a child be responsible for the crimes of their fathers? As an example, assume your father killed someone and stole $1000 dollars from them. You never knew about this didn't choose for him to do this but now someone is coming after you saying you must pay them $1000. Yo…

I am quite surprised to see this default-to-no-action comment here on HN. Sometimes, a problem isn't your fault, but you are still compelled to fix it. If people have this attitude, then "we" (as a species) are absolutely screwed vis-a-vis climate change. In a generation, nobody is going to be around who did all the polluting, and hopefully everyone doesn't just sit around saying "Well I didn't do it!"

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#940

Post by manuelabeledo »

kyleee wrote: post #529
manuelabeledo wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I have no input in the government that makes their laws. Nor any hope of ever being heard. Yet those laws apply to me just the same. That is also the reality of 40 million immigrants in the US.

Which immigrants?

All of them.
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