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GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

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Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#921

Post by ciconia »

827a wrote: post #163

My deepest concern at this time isn't that AI eventually gets written down to nothing; because I don't think it will. Its that these companies are so scared of being out-competed by an AI-first competitor that they're willing to make deep sacrifices to their core businesses just to effectively virtue signal that they're AI first and unable to be out-competed. It is deeply concerning because all things point to realit…

> None of these big tech companies have leveraged AI to build anything remotely interesting from a product perspective.

Exactly, but this is just the nature of this technology. It can sort of fake human intelligence but not really. You can't count on it to do human work without supervising it so what's the point?

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#922

Post by materialpoint »

gmueckl wrote: post #435
meindnoch wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys ? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - being the no. 1 enemy of free software - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share - making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kil…

This comment comes some 15 years late. Microsoft runs the biggest org on github and has open sourced a lot of their own code under permissive licenses. IE has been dead and buried for ages. Edge doesn't have even close to the same market share and is based on Chromium. They build more and more of their own UIs on Electron. I honestly don't remember when they tried to snare someone to use proprietary extensions to som…

You should be aware that Microsoft's idea of open source is very much at odds with everything open source before Microsoft boldly slapped a "Microsft <3 open source" right and left. They may have progressed beyond Ms-PL, but they have tried to coup and steal open source projects several times. But, altho understandable, the simple fact that their primary products, Visual Studio, Office, Windows, and even worse: former versions of any of these, are simply not open source in any way precisely contradicts the expression of loving open source.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#923

Post by PKop »

motorest wrote: post #207
pjmlp wrote: post #84

I think that just like it happened with Apple after they made it out of bankruptcy, Microsoft being the cool guys phase is slowly over. Xamarin is no more, after the whole MAUI rewrite without backwards compatibility to Xamarin.Forms, killing VS4Mac, shortly after having rewriten the underlying Xamarin based IDE into Mac, what survives is a subset of Xamarin tech for mobile and WebAssembly workloads. .NET is now cros…

> Then there is the issue they seem to be shoting into all directions, with GUI frameworks, Web, Blazor, Aspire, to see what sticks. Can you elaborate on why you believe that? I mean, with GUI frameworks it's pretty obvious MS is placing all their chips on WinUI3, even though they are not deprecating any legacy framework. I mean, their Win32 API is still alive and well, as well as MFC, ATL, etc. WPF still gets some m…

> it's pretty obvious MS is placing all their chips on WinUI3

Not it isn't, based on the paltry resources and team size they have working on it, the pace of bug fixes (non existent), the fact that in 2024 they stated WPF is on par with WinUI 3 as a recommended GUI framework. I'm not sure what signals to you they are "all in" on it.

Look at the size of this thread [0], and how many people tried to give WinUI 3 a chance but have been burned by lack of support. This is not the sentiment that surrounds a platform that has a lot of chips betting on it.

[0] https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml/discussions/9...

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#924

Post by lisbbb »

Github has become too mission critical for many companies--their pipelines and processes often rely on Github workflows that may or may not be working each day. I was recently at a company that was dependent on Github workflows to make changes to their CDN and we had to come up with a "github is down" strategy for their team because it had become a consideration.

In general, git itself has become a bloated product. There's like 2-3 ways to do everything now and devs now argue about which is the purest, "right" way and it's annoying to deal with opinions of egotistical people when you're just trying to get work done.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#925

Post by lisbbb »

meindnoch wrote: post #404
pjmlp wrote: post #84

I think that just like it happened with Apple after they made it out of bankruptcy, Microsoft being the cool guys phase is slowly over. Xamarin is no more, after the whole MAUI rewrite without backwards compatibility to Xamarin.Forms, killing VS4Mac, shortly after having rewriten the underlying Xamarin based IDE into Mac, what survives is a subset of Xamarin tech for mobile and WebAssembly workloads. .NET is now cros…

Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys ? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - being the no. 1 enemy of free software - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share - making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kil…

Also champions of idiotic subscription models instead of providing long-term value to customers.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#926

Post by thewebguyd »

KaiserPro wrote: post #817
theptip wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google has world-class research teams that have produced unbelievable models, without any plan at all on how those make it into their products beyond forcing a chat window into Google Drive. NotebookLM is a genuinely novel AI-first product. YouTube gaining an “ask a question about this video” button, this is a perfect example of how to sprinkle AI on an existing product. Extremely slow, but the obvious incremental…

> Apple in particular is inexcusable This isn't me defending apple, but, let me play out a little scenario: "hey siri, book me tickets to see tonight's game" "sure thing, champ" > "I have booked the tickets, they are now in your apple wallet" > You buy apple because "it works" (yes, most of that is hype, but the vertical integration is actually good, not great for devs/tinkerers though.) AI just adds in a 10-30% chan…

> You don't notice with chatGPT, because you expect it to be the dipshit in your pocket. You don't expect apple to be shit.

So many people don't realize this for some reason, but I think it's precisely why we haven't seen anything shown at WWDC '24. Apple tried and quickly realized the tech wasn't ready, and letting it run wild on their platforms would do irreparable brand damage.

This tech (LLMs) have barely been available to the public for ~3-4 years. That's no time at all, anyone using AI regularly now is very much an early adopter, something Apple historically isn't and Apple's users generally appreciate that aspect of them.

I get wanting to stay ahead of the curve and be competitive, but I don't understand this seemingly deep seated fear of these big tech companies that is making them go 100% all in on AI at the cost of all other areas of their business.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#927

Post by hbn »

hbn wrote: post #495
827a wrote: post #163

My deepest concern at this time isn't that AI eventually gets written down to nothing; because I don't think it will. Its that these companies are so scared of being out-competed by an AI-first competitor that they're willing to make deep sacrifices to their core businesses just to effectively virtue signal that they're AI first and unable to be out-competed. It is deeply concerning because all things point to realit…

Do I have any fellow Duolingo users here? I know they've gotten shit for years, it's not gonna make you fluent, etc etc But I've defended them because it's at the very least a good starting point and something to keep you consistent every day. As long as you're trying to be mindful about learning, I've found it to be a great tool to assist in improving my Spanish. That is until a month or 2 ago where they completely…

Was catching up on this thread and can't believe I said "X at best and Y at FIRST"

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#928

Post by robertlagrant »

martin-t wrote: post #910
Wilder7977 wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you. The best answer I can give myself to your (perhaps rhetorical) question is twofold: - tech companies, for whatever reason, seem to need millions and millions of funding upfront to get started. Despite a tech company not needing essentially any asset (besides a few workstations and internet connections?). The VC era inherently created a huge distortion so that it's virtually impossible to…

It's actually not rhetorical - I really wanna know what leads to this to-me-obvious contradiction. One answer is obvious - every organization's primary goal is its own survival. So a democratic state will indoctrinate ("educate") children into believing democracy is the right way. But no school teaches about corporate power structures and cooperatives are so rare that they have little influence on the curriculum. Wha…

> Then people realized you could get a bunch of these builders to work for you and take a cut from each of them - sometimes at least in exchange for providing marketing or "the means of production" but without providing any _real_ (positive-sum) work

This is just a classic mistake: failing to account for risk as a significant input. Any business that needs money to start needs people to risk their reputation or their money to get it going, possibly long before any profit is made.

> A radical idea would changing the law so be that workers own what they produce.

If I design a machine and you build it, who owns what?

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#929

Post by thewebguyd »

hnlmorg wrote: post #346
zemo wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has nothing I always hear this but people use Siri all the time, and I think outside of talking to programmers, a lot of consumers probably consider that the level of AI they care about using. "is Siri really AI" seems like a real "is a hotdog a sandwich" question. Who cares? People eat hot dogs and talk to Siri. It seems what Apple has less of is LLM products that cost enormous sums of money to make that peo…

I do wish Siri was a little more intelligent to be honest. I use Siri when I need a fast, distraction-free, action. Which makes it perfect when driving or performing other tasks where my hands a busy and/or I cannot put my attention on my phones LCD screen. The way Apple paired with ChatGPT is awkward. You get prompted if you want to use Siri or ChatGPT. Which creates a distraction. I'd love it if Siri was smart enou…

> The way Apple paired with ChatGPT is awkward. You get prompted if you want to use Siri or ChatGPT. Which creates a distraction.

My hunch tells me this is a temporary stopgap until Apple figures out their "private cloud compute" or whatever where they can run their own model, after that it'll be seamless. Try to do as much on device as possible, and if that fails/is not possible, offload to the model running on Apple's servers rather than a 3rd party service.

Maybe they're "behind" (although, this tech is still so early I don't think anyone is truly behind), but I appreciate their approach to try and do as much on device as possible. They are the only ones around that aren't just defaulting to "harvest as much data as possible and ship it to our servers."

I can be patient - Siri works fine for what I want it for anyway - it can set reminders, timers, alarms, dictate messages, and create notes. That's about all I use it for and would use it for. Anything else I'm not going to ask my phone, I'm going to take it out and head to Google.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#930

Post by thewebguyd »

pornel wrote: post #590
827a wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of really interesting (and profitable) AI products out there. And: there's so many more that can be built. We're only scratching the surface of what the industry has already invented can do. Not in an "AGI Inevitable" capacity; what we have, today, with more context engineering, better user interfaces, better products with deeper AI-first thinking, etc. My point was more-so that FAANG isn't even…

There's a lot of "promising" and "interesting" stuff, but I'm not seeing anything yet that actually works reliably. Sooner or later (mostly sooner) it becomes apparent that it's all just a chatbot hastily slapped on top of an existing API, and the integration barely works. A tech demo shows your AI coding agent can write a whole web app in one prompt. In reality, a file with 7 tab characters in a row completely break…

> A tech demo shows your AI coding agent can write a whole web app in one prompt. In reality, a file with 7 tab characters in a row completely breaks it.

I like how all the demos just show these crazy simple, single page "web apps" that are effectively just coding tutorial material, and people eat it up. There's no talk of auth, persistence, security, deployment, performance, etc.

Cool...it vibe coded a janky snake game with no collision, now what?

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