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Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

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Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#921
post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one person googling and watching porn has nothing to do with other people, very different from buying guns

It has as much to do with other people as buying guns does. What about the actresses in the porn content; people the world, clearly including you, so quickly forget about? The concerning number of women who are trapped into this industry, usually in third world countries, by men? What about the people on the other side of the personal relationships of individuals who consume this content; the averted gazes, their tre…

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Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, some of them are. More evangelicals than my crowd. Morality bears directly on what we consider to be a just society, so I don’t care if you don’t care. You’re broadening the scope beyond this particular issue, where I’m guessing I agree with you. It’s not virtuous to act right because the state makes you, but the question of what we require and preclude is defined by our moral frameworks at some level. I’m not su…

Come one man, it would be trivial for me to credibly argue that your religion has given scores of young men an absolutely dysfunctional relation to sexuality, woman, their own body, etc. Anyone could make that case as easily as your case about pornography (arguably with more proof in my case). Should we legislate both the same way?

I agree that some "purity gospel" teachings have made people uncomfortable with their own bodies. For example, I don't find myself bent out of shape by girls wearing shorter shorts and don't agree with the degree of taboo applied to nudity in America. I also think this only contributes to over-sexualization rather than reducing it.

I just don't see that as "my religion". That's not what I believe. In a certain sense an Eastern Orthodox Christian and a Missouri Synod Lutheran both have the "same religion", but for practical purposes they do not.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Don, we've discussed this on an old account of mine so at this point I'm pretty convinced you are set in your beliefs and more interested in publicly lambasting mine. But, for the sake of this thread, fine.

In the source you linked most of the references in scripture were from the Old Testament. I am a Christian, which means I am part of a new covenant with God. Just like I can wear mixed fabrics, I believe that owning slavery is a flagrant violation of the Second Great Commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

All but one of the New Testament sources were from sources besides Christ. Fallible men, whose words hold some value but are certainly imperfect. I realize this belief separates me from a majority of Christians, but it's far from the only objection I have to particularly Paul's Letters.

As for the quotation from Luke, I read this in the same way I read, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's," as a rebuke of petty earthly concerns. In that verse, he certainly wasn't endorsing taxation, as he later spoke of tax collectors in Matthew 9:12 as among "they that are sick".

I'm not sure why you infodumped a landing page at me or why you think I'm a fan of slavery, but you left multiple (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44548475, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44548632) so I'm going to consolidate responses. The Ten Commandments were obviated by the New Covenant, so I don't understand why you think God would need to add a new commandment. The Roman Catholic Pope is also not "my pope"; I don't believe in that concept at all and am not a Roman Catholic.

To your question, "are you for not either changing it or renouncing that religion?" I have thought about renouncing Christianity in the past, yes. I had a very long questioning phase, and continue to question. Much of that questioning has led to fruitful conversations with friends from a number of different religious backgrounds and shaped by beliefs. It has also led me to break with the structure of most denominations.

Lastly, why I'm not "doing something?" I already allocate my time, talent, and treasure to a local charity I co-founded some years back. I deeply believe in its mission and know all those resources go to good use, unlike with many large, international NGOs. It helps people from my town, if mostly from the other side of it. I believe in rightly-ordered love, and in working to take care of a problem I can see and understand and work to remedy, thanks to the advantage I have being present in this town, before looking elsewhere.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I don’t need a source… Yikes dude. > …to back up what I’ve consistently observed with my own eyes People have observed everything UFOs and demons to ivermectin curing their COVID. None of it is real but yet people continue to swear up and down on these things gs. > ...given the speed at which research sometimes move Filling in knowledge gaps with imagination is not a substitute for actual data. Ever. > and particul…

Do you really think it's fair to compare a questionable UFO sighting to what I've learned from talking with and knowing people, seeing how this affects them? I don't think it is. Or talking with their girlfriends and hearing about this issue.

If you want good evidence that this is hard to study well, even if you maintain that political concerns are a non-issue, around 11% of men report some agreement with the statement, "I am addicted to pornography." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7044607 Of course, another analysis found that just 51.7% of men used pornography, which seems optimistically low: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11234758/ See the concerns I mentioned around getting truthful data, which are also well-known within nutrition. 17.4% of those men were "problematic" pornography users.

I'm back on a laptop now so can pull this up a little easier, but I don't think you're defending this from the right angle. It's the same as when the marijuana legalization advocates say "it's basically medicine lol" or deny that addiction is possible and that it's known to somewhat increase risk of schizophrenia, because they are scared that admitting that something is bad means they are somehow supporting a ban on it. There are a lot of bad things people consume and I support banning very few of those. Pornography is not one. Please don't mistake my position.

I'll also point out that my original comment explicitly stated that I didn't see it as the role of the state but of parents. I'm not sure with whom you're arguing here about that.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#926
post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, some of them are. More evangelicals than my crowd. Morality bears directly on what we consider to be a just society, so I don’t care if you don’t care. You’re broadening the scope beyond this particular issue, where I’m guessing I agree with you. It’s not virtuous to act right because the state makes you, but the question of what we require and preclude is defined by our moral frameworks at some level. I’m not su…

> Most adults I see are fat, thus gluttons, thus are committing a sin. This is not how fatness works. Some people are genetically predisposed to gaining weight easily. Some people are literally just hungrier and have a higher satiety threshold. This is why "just eat less" is horribly ineffective. Diet and exercise help but are more Band-Aids than a true long-term fix. Many people gain MORE weight after a period of in…

This is, as a matter of fact. Both sides of my family are essentially universally obese. I grew up with it. I saw lots of it. I am probably genetically predisposed, but I'm not giving my DNA to one of those sketchy testing companies, so I can't say for sure.

It's not an issue of metabolism. I've walked in on people sneaking a junk food binge at 1:30AM too many times to believe this. I've seen all the sneak-eating, all the extra oily sauce when they think "well it's a salad", to believe that.

Diet and exercise are actually great long-term fixes, they're just not easy. We can see this pretty well by how reducing appetite via a GLP-1 agonist helps to decrease body fat, even with older-generation drugs that act almost entirely by just reducing appetite and increasing satiety rather than by additional mechanisms. There are also benefits like increased muscle mass increasing one's BMR so the same-size meal might no longer cause one to gain fat.

I understand that it's complex. It doesn't mean I want to blame or castigate people. I can empathize strongly with struggling against impulses to sin.

Both sides of my family also have extensive history of alcoholism. This has caused me to be very, very careful around alcohol, because despite a predisposition, drunkenness is still a sin. Somebody may have anger issues, but clocking somebody is still a sin. Many of us will have all these impulses or commit these sins. Most of the time, my reaction is to sit and empathize, particularly for "victimless crimes" (rather, sins where the only victim is one's own soul.)

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#927

> conservative Christians are trying to eliminate ALL sexually-related speech online I don’t really appreciate this framing. Despite being a very conservative Christian (at least in many ways, if not others) I don’t approve of or agree with the scope of SCOTUS’ current ruling, nor do I approve of all the age- verification laws as written. It seems futile to attempt to make everybody everywhere do this and create a lo…

> I don’t really appreciate this framing. The framing is objectively accurate. Perhaps you should reconsider the group you identify with.

You're the one identifying me with them. That's my point. The group you dislike is "people who support this policy" or "Christians who want to enshrine their social policy via legislation." That's not what you said though.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them are. I just don’t see any reason to say “I disagree with the conservative Christians pushing this” rather than “I disagree with the people who support this.” There are secular folks who also support such legislation. It hints at a generalized animus towards religion and likely in particular towards Christianity, kind of like Fox News boomers complaining Obama wouldn’t say “radical Islamic terrorism”.

People need to understand that there is a radical Christian element trying to impose its beliefs on everyone. They should be called out continuously and especially when they successfully modify any laws, state or federal.

There is a radical proportion of American Christians which believes this, yes. I'm fine with calling out those beliefs. That's not my issue here, more tarring Christianity broadly, or even specifically those of us who hold conservative social beliefs but don't believe in imposing those via state coercion.

I don't see any moral benefit to forcing people not to sin. There's no virtue when there's no choice.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them are. I just don’t see any reason to say “I disagree with the conservative Christians pushing this” rather than “I disagree with the people who support this.” There are secular folks who also support such legislation. It hints at a generalized animus towards religion and likely in particular towards Christianity, kind of like Fox News boomers complaining Obama wouldn’t say “radical Islamic terrorism”.

I understand what you're saying but when you have Trump and his cohorts fake praying in the oval office with the support of conservative Christians who abandon all of Jesus' teachings of love and compassion and embrace Trump's hate, you might understand why people take a specific issue with that.

I'm fine with criticizing that, and actually agree with that criticism. "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven."

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#930

> conservative Christians are trying to eliminate ALL sexually-related speech online I don’t really appreciate this framing. Despite being a very conservative Christian (at least in many ways, if not others) I don’t approve of or agree with the scope of SCOTUS’ current ruling, nor do I approve of all the age- verification laws as written. It seems futile to attempt to make everybody everywhere do this and create a lo…

Would you also understand impetus behind any proposed hypothetical ban on alcohol, tobacco, firearms, or anything else that causes harm to the society?

Yes, I would. Just like with proposed bans on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, I understand the motives (particularly when I look at the rash of wife-beating that encouraged the temperance movement, for instance) but oppose the proposed solution (banning those things).
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