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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#921

Post by bagels »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #627
tim333 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>wars which break out because of scarcity issues That doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days. If you look at Russia/Ukraine or China/Taiwan there's not much scarcity. It's more bullying dictator wants to control the neighbours issues.

It will be, or, it's slowly happening already. Climate change is triggering water and food shortages, both abroad and on your doorstep (California wildfires), which in turn trigger mass migrations. If a richer and/or more militarily equipped country decides they want another country's resources to survive, we'll see wars erupt everywhere. Then again, it's more of a logistics challenge, and if e.g. California were to…

California moves water the long way with aqueducts, pipes and pumps. It's an understood problem, but expensive.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#922

Post by armaautomotive »

deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

Won't an intelligent agent available to everyone be able to solve problems in the world? Isn't that why they (OpenAI) and others are doing what they do? To bring abundance?

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#923

Post by 1970-01-01 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #681
deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

Five-hundred billion dollars is nothing when you consider there's a new government agency that it is said will shave two trillion from government inefficiency.

Five-hundred billion is twenty-five percent of DOGE's pie in the sky promise. It's something.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#925

Post by thfuran »

visarga wrote: post #694
CSSer wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

The problem with allowing student debt to rack up to these levels and then cancelling it is that it would embolden universities to ask even higher tuition. A second problem is that not all students get the benefit, some already paid off their debts or a large part of it. It would be unfair to them.

Only the first of those is a real problem, but it really is a problem.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#926

Post by thelastgallon »

deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

We could do 20 Manhattan projects with it[1].

1) Build fully autonomous cars so there are zero deaths from car accidents. This is ~45K deaths/year (just US!) and millions of injuries. Annual economic cost of crashes is $340 billion. Worldwide the toll is 10 - 100x?

2) Put solar on top of all highways.

3) Give money to all farmers to put solar.

4) Build transmission.

And many more ...

The Manhattan Project employed nearly 130,000 people at its peak and cost nearly US$2 billion (equivalent to about $27 billion in 2023): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#927

Post by whalesalad »

TMWNN wrote: post #550
miltonlost wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's watching a gay man grovel at the feet of one of the most anti-LGBT politicians, a day after Trump signed multiple executive orders that dehumanized Altman and the LGBT community. Every token thinks they're special until they're spent.

>For me it's watching a gay man grovel at the feet of one of the most anti-LGBT politicians Besides what ImJamal said, as a wealthy playboy man-about-town hanging out at Studio 54 in the '70s and '80s, I guarantee Trump has known and been friends with more gays than 95% of Americans. Certainly there has been no shortage of gay people among his top-level appointees in either his first or second administrations.

> I guarantee Trump has known and been friends with more gays than 95% of Americans.

ok... ??? doesn't mean a thing, frankly.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#928

Post by jl2718 »

1. At this scale, we’re not just talking about buying GPUs. It requires semiconductor fabs, assembly factories, power plants, batteries/lithium, cooling, water, hazardous waste disposal. These data centers are going to have to be massively geo-engineered arcologies.

2. What are they doing? AGI/ASI is a neat trick, but then what? I’m not asking because I don’t think there is an answer; I’m asking because I want the REAL answer. Larry Ellison was talking about RNA cancer vaccines. Well, I was the one that made the neural network model for the company with the US patent on this technique, and that pitch makes little sense. As the problem is understood today, the computational problems are 99% solved with laptop-class hardware. There are some remaining problems that are not solved by neural networks, but by molecular dynamics, which are done in FP64. Even if FP8 neural structure approximation speeds it up 100x, FP64 will be 99% of the computation. So what we today call “AI infrastructure” is not appropriate for the task they talk about. What is it appropriate for? Well, I know that Sam is a bit uncreative, so I assume he’s just going to keep following the “HER” timeline and make a massive playground for LLMs to talk to each other and leave humanity behind. I don’t think that is necessarily unworthy of our Apollo-scale commitment, but there are serious questions about the honest of the project, and what we should demand for transparency. We’re obviously headed toward a symbiotic merger where LLMs and GenAI are completely in control of our understanding of the world. There is a difference between watching a high-production movie for two hours, and then going back to reality, versus a never-ending stream of false sensory information engineered individually to specifically control your behavior. The only question is whether we will be able to see behind the curtain of the great Oz. That’s what I mean by transparency. Not financial or organizational, but actual code, data, model, and prompt transparency. Is this a fundamental right worth fighting for?

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#929

Post by XorNot »

thelastgallon wrote: post #926
deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

We could do 20 Manhattan projects with it[1]. 1) Build fully autonomous cars so there are zero deaths from car accidents. This is ~45K deaths/year (just US!) and millions of injuries. Annual economic cost of crashes is $340 billion. Worldwide the toll is 10 - 100x? 2) Put solar on top of all highways. 3) Give money to all farmers to put solar. 4) Build transmission. And many more ... The Manhattan Project employed ne…

You can't just compare things to the Manhattan project. The Manhattan project was large for it's time, but the thing they were doing was ultimately, simple. You can build a nuclear bomb with simply a large enough sphere of enriched U-235 and it'll explode. Which is what the Hiroshima bomb was - a gun type assembly. This is not a complex device.

The relative complexity of projects only ever increases, because if they were simpler we would already have done them. The modern LHC is far more complicated then the Manhattan project. So is ITER. Hell, the US military's logistics chain is more complicated then the Manhattan project.

The fundamental attribution error here is going "look the power to destroy a city was so much cheaper!"

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#930

Post by b59831 »

CSSer wrote: post #622
deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

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