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The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

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921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would help if there were any consensus on what actually constitutes affordable housing.

Each state will calculate them differently, for example, New Jersey offers Excel spreadsheets to show exactly how they calculate it. > The calculators below are for use by administrative agents and developers of affordable housing to determine the initial sales prices and rents for affordable units in compliance with the Uniform Housing Affordability Controls (UHAC). https://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/lps/hss/calculato…

taps the lack of consensus sign

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would help if there were any consensus on what actually constitutes affordable housing.

Rent/Mortgage under or equal to 28% net income.

That's hardly a consensus nor even enough aggregate consensus to serve as a rule of thumb.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

> the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market Out of curiosity, where? How do they know this? I bought my house “cash.” It doesn’t mean I filed my car with paper. Just that I didn’t require a financing contingency. (Brokers typically don’t know who they lost a house to until property records are updated.)

You can look up the listings for the rentals after the house has been flipped. And damn, good for you being able to purchase a home without financing! Most of us can’t pull that off

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I will disagree, regulations are very much blocking development of the type of housing that is needed, at least in my experience. Whenever a dense block of housing is proposed, people abuse zoning regulations here to shut it down. They add on tons of extra costs (mandatory parking etc) and then complain about how much the houses cost. Go look at your city and see if it's actually legal to build a new mid ris…

> Actually I will disagree, regulations are very much blocking development of the type of housing that is needed, at least in my experience. We might just be disagreeing on terminology, there is a difference, in my mind, between regulations that require something bad to happen and regulations that ALLOW something bad to happen. If the regulations ALLOW something bad to happen that's a "lack of regulation" > Go look a…

In my area of the US, we have zoning laws more favorable than most. Even so, you can't build anything but SFH on my street. You can subdivide your acre lot and build 10 homes where there used to be one, and some people have done this. Still, you won't be building any duplexes or attached homes. Only detached single-family homes allowed.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that specific definition? It seems in many cases the term is used to AVOID being pinned to any specific definition.

Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs. For rental housing, these costs include monthly rent and utility payments; for owner-occupied housing, these costs include mortgage payments and additional expenses associated with homeownership. A household…

> Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs.

This is fantastic, and I do think this definition is meaningful, but what legally binds this definition to what politicians and interest groups discuss? Without a legal binding the term "affordable housing" will continue to be a floating signifier indicating housing that is somehow generally affordable conveniently without defining the mechanism by which this will be delivered.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#926
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think houses should be used by anybody to build up wealth.

Thank you for pointing this out. Houses can be cheap, or they can be a good investment. Not both. I think I read that here on hacker news a few years ago, and it has stuck with me.

> Houses can be cheap, or they can be a good investment. Not both.

> I think I read that here on hacker news a few years ago, and it has stuck with me.

It's repeated in every HN discussion about housing.

Also, it's too simplistic. It's basically impossible (barring a complete market meltdown like Detroit back then) to not increase your net worth owning a house.

You have to live somewhere. If you buy a house you (very slowly) end up owning it. A house has nonzero value. Now you have some equity, aka wealth. Even if the price depreciates it's not zero, so you built some wealth (vs renting where you could've rented for 60 years and still own nothing).

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take SF as an example. If a significant number of new units were built (somehow without detracting from the character of the city), would it really lower prices much? Likely not - instead prices would dip just enough to make it viable for large numbers of high income people from outside SF to come to the city (which by massing effect may make SF even more desirable, so actually higher prices!) Wealth taxes are…

This is a bizarre idea contrary to how many housing affordability crisis were actually solved in the past. Would SF's housing prices go down if you were to build 10,000 new units? You're right, probably not that much. Would SF's housing prices go down if you were to build 1M new units? No doubt. Shenzhen grew from 100,000 people in the 1980s to 13M now with no housing affordability crisis...by building. The whole pea…

> Would SF's housing prices go down if you were to build 1M new units? No doubt.

Where could you built 1M units in San Francisco? It is less than 50 square miles surrounded on 3 sides by water.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn’t the message - it’s the presence of having normal people. Public transport is just as popular in NYC as it is in Tokyo despite the shit. Just got back from 3.5 months in Europe (17 cities), and yes it’s vastly better there, far more clean and sane. Still, coming back to NYC I’m not not taking the subway despite spending nearly my whole life in SoCal. It’s easily the better option over owning a car if you’r…

I see where you're coming from, but the "normal people" leave because of these incidents. If you want everyday people riding the train, you gotta make sure that the poorest people in society aren't so miserable that they're unpleasant to be around.

I've never heard someone give the subway as a reason for leaving NYC. They leave because they're priced out of what they consider acceptable housing, the weather, or issues with the city itself. But never the subway.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#930

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which developers are going to build past the point of diminishing marginal returns?

Assuming you are actually interested, there are three different things that happen here in housing. Keep in mind you're describing how any commodity continues to have a growing market; you'd just never ask this about consumer goods since you're not used to thinking about how LG or Kohler or Fisher-Price stay in business. 1) Developers want to continue in their business, so they cut costs. This means factory built com…

> you'd just never ask this about consumer goods since you're not used to thinking about how LG or Kohler or Fisher-Price stay in business.

This is actually entirely backwards -- it's much more common for me to hear examples in informal conversation that show some understanding of how producers of household goods might want to avoid oversupply because it drives prices down and volume on smaller margins is a tough game, sometimes well worth the rewards, sometimes with its own undesirable consequences.

I literally never hear this from anyone who talks about housing supply, to the point where I'd be willing to bet the majority of people talking about it online are only tangentially familiar with the concept of diminishing marginal returns at all and the other 90% it just never occurred to them it relates.

> Today they have no incentive to actually compete.

As long as you've got competition you have incentive to compete. Along with the incentive that cutting production costs in the world we have produces greater margins as surely as in some imagined counterfactual world where there's no zoning or something.

> Without zoning

Without zoning you might get out of having to account to a municipality, but nothing changes about the demand for different kinds of use in a given area or the economics of providing it.

> Modular buildings explode. People come up with shit you cannot possibly think of today.

because markets, right?

Modular design and prefab have been a thing for decades. Where they have advantages, they should (and in some cases are) already thriving.

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